Okay, MSteven wanted me to reply to his issue in debates, so here it is.
Essentially, in another thread, we got onto the topic of Evolution vs. Creationism. I brought up the fact that this sort of fight is really only an issue (in First World countries) in America.
MSteven disagrees.
I'd love it if we had some non-Americans weigh in on this, as MSteven and I are both Americans.
It's been my experience that the debate as to whether evolution or creation is the proper thing to teach in schools is only an issue here in the States, possibly in Quebec, but not really in any of the other First-World countries. Most other countries don't have a public school system, and don't experience this issue, as it's a state/church boundary issue.
I've been mocked, in fact, by a Swiss cousin who asked me what the hell is wrong with Americans that they'd let that be taught in schools. She's a pretty frequent church-goer, and considers herself a good Catholic, but openly scoffs at the idea of Creationism getting equal play in public schools.
Muslims, as far as I'm aware, tend to be much more forward-thinking about scientific issues than Christians, having invented most of the math and a lot of the medicine and science that we use today. I don't ever recall this sort of debate being an issue in the more wealthy Muslim states, and I'm aware that they're often sent to Europe and the States for their post-secondary educations, and yet there's not a problem that I know of concerning these students and the subject of Creationism.
In most of the rest of the world, it appears that those who support Creationism are lumped together with the Flat Earth believers, and Geo-centrists, as ignorant people whose ideas are centuries out of date.
Really, I don't see what the basis for debate here is, but, as previously stated, MSteven wanted any reply here, so hopefully you folks can make something out of it without devolving into the usual "uh-huh", "nuh-uh" that these usually become.
America is pretty much alone in this one. Australia is really the only other country that has this issue, the rest of the developed world has pretty much accepted that Evolution is a fact, and that Creationism (or Intelligent Design), is a purely spiritual matter, and doesn't have a place in public education. This article (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...809619,00.html) in fact shows that European governments vehemently oppose the theory of Creationism being taught in their schools, and that, at least in Germany (and I suspect in most other states), Creationism is a subject only for Religion classes, not for science-based classes.
Really the only story I can find that seems to portray this as being an actual debate, with the same level of attention paid to it as in the states, is from Serbia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3635794.stm), and even there, Creationism is to be given equal time with Evolution, not to replace it. The U.S. and, apparently, Australia, are really the only countries with large groups of Creationists trying to usurp the teachings of Darwin with those of the Bible.
You forgot the lands of my forefathers: West Virginia.
To take some edge off of it, America was founded by the religious nuts that Europe wanted rid of. Puritans, quakers, etc. so some of the fundamentalism and strict morals can. be attributed to our founded religious nutters
You forgot the lands of my forefathers: West Virginia.
To take some edge off of it, America was founded by the religious nuts that Europe wanted rid of. Puritans, quakers, etc. so some of the fundamentalism and strict morals can. be attributed to our founded religious nutters
Our forefathers in America were seeking freedom from religious persecution. I forget if they were protestant or catholic. However, Times HAVE changed. A scientist once said, "At first when you get into science, it pulls you away from religion. Then as you go deeper, science only takes you back to religion."
It's tremendously hard for humans to comprehend everything in the universe. Some say religion was made to comfort people when they thought about death. Some say it was made for social control. Indeed, organized religion is the perfect 'hivemind' or system to make everyone in society think alike, and shun those who think differently.
Evolution does occur, no doubt. But in my view, if Earth formed from thousands or millions of particles of space dust coming together and slowly building up, what gave it a molten core? A mantle? A crust? Water? What caused particles to suddenly form organelles? Then cells? What made cells come together collectively to form multicellular organisms? What made these cells grant sentience to a being?
Science can explain a lot. And Religion can explain a lot too, but in the end, there will ALWAYS be holes left. Teaching the students that the two theories can go hand in hand, instead of against each other may help. Tolerance only leads to advancement.
america is full of fucking idiots, and the creationism museam that popped up about 6 months ago should be burned to the ground for making a mockery of the human race's ability to comprehend abstract facts
america is full of fucking idiots, and the creationism museam that popped up about 6 months ago should be burned to the ground for making a mockery of the human race's ability to comprehend abstract facts
and no, i think it's highly justified. why the hell should this kinda bullshit be pushed onto impressionable minds just for the sake of a belief system? that's regressing hundreds of years ffs
Our forefathers in America were seeking freedom from religious persecution. I forget if they were protestant or catholic. However, Times HAVE changed. A scientist once said, "At first when you get into science, it pulls you away from religion. Then as you go deeper, science only takes you back to religion."
Hehe, nothing really on-topic to add here, but the "freedom from religious persecution" bit always makes me chuckle.
First folks; puritans. They actually were Puritans, and pretty intolerant themselves; they thought that the CoE (Church of England) was rife with idolatry, they were extreme in regards to their belief in following the Bible as regards the sabbat (persecuting anyone who worked or played on Sundays, basically), and at one point released mass pamphlets accusing the Archbishob of Canterbury of being the anti-christ. When they came to America, there were big fights about seperating from the CoE, throwing out a bishop (I think?) due to his beliefs that Puritans should seperate from the CoE. Not terribly tolerant, the Puritans.
Not that anyone in America would know, we get fed the happy-crappy version of history, so it's no surprise that when we say things like that, we actually believe them, and have a hard time finding evidence to the contrary.
Even so, the main reason for the U.S. becoming independent was money. "Taxation without representation" was the war-cry. If they were trying for religious freedoms, they did a rather poor job of it, just ask an American Indian.
You ask for voices from European countries and I think "Woo-hoo~ I get to voice for Germany! I'm important and helpful! =D"
Then I get to the bottom of your post and see the one country you've already heard from is Germany, and then I start cutting myself.
Anyways, tomorrow I can bring up this subject in my class. Then you'll have plenty of voices from varying countries. Russia, Uzbeckhstan, Colombia, Thailand, Paraguay, Nepal, the Ukraine...Maybe Spain and Italy.
Yes I realize those aren't all First World. No, I don't care. D<
Last edited by Longknife : 06-17-2008 at 04:31 AM.
Well heres a big problem, which is all in my personal humble opinion.
When it comes to America vs. The world, no matter the subject America will always consider itself to be the highest form of correctness. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, America will still declare that the rest of the world is wrong.
When it comes to most modern Christians, they believe themselves to be the only right religion. If you dont follow their beliefs then you will burn in a firey pit of lava. If you dont believe 100% what a book of fables tells you, then you will burn in a firey pit of lava. Everything else to them is heresy and goes against everything they claim "God" teaches.
So you can imagine how egotistical American Christians can be.
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