If the only way to "treat" a member of my family was to LITERALLY bring them back from the dead, with a relatively high chance of them being severely mentally and nervously damaged, then I would rather "let them slip away."
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05-17-2008, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizzie
Erm. What I said was in relation to this story.
If the only way to "treat" a member of my family was to LITERALLY bring them back from the dead, with a relatively high chance of them being severely mentally and nervously damaged, then I would rather "let them slip away."
Now get your nose out of my private life.
Fully agreed. Personally I'd rather die than live like that, we should be working on preventing people from dying in the first place, not bringing them back.
I don't know. It's very difficult; There ARE too many people in the world, and finding cures for illnesses and diseases obviously does not help that... But nobody wants to see their loved ones die.
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05-17-2008, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipherion
Next time you or someone in your family gets an illness that would lead to death without treatment, I hope you remember what you said here and let them slip away no matter how easily you could have saved them.
I look at natural death as a blessing. If a person dies of natural causes they clearly had done what they were here to do and God is sort of "Taking them out". To some, Death is an ending, to me, It's a beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
If they can refine the procedure, this would save potentially millions of people with treatable conditions who simply didnt' make it because they couldn't get to a hospital in time. Of course the whole brain damage side is a serious problem, but further refining of the technique will hopefully eliminate that as a concern except in extremely rare cases.
As to the playing god angle:
Yes, let's allow belief in a supernatural entity to stop progress in an area of research that could save the lives of millions. Especially since if this supernatural being does exist, he gave us the ability and drive to do stuff like this. Saying it's wrong and playing god makes no sense. Why would god object to a procedure that will save lives?
I don't believe in god, but if I'm wrong and there is one, surely he would approve of us doing everything we can to save lives. Either god doesn't exist and it doesn't matter whether or not he'd approve or god does exist and gave us the abilty to concieve of such life saving techniques and thus would almost certainly approve.
God did not give us the ability to do so. We found it ourselves. Have you ever heard the terms, "God's Love" and "God's Gift"? The Gift is Salvation through christ, but the love is the freedom of will. We may do whatever we please here, but depending on what we do, the "Gift" may or may not be offered to us.
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05-17-2008, 12:14 PM
It isn't bringing them back from the dead though. It's delaying death and increasing the period of time they can be resuscitated. This means many people who today would die in route to the hospital could be frozen until they got treatment.
Yes the procedure currently has a high risk of brain damage. This is why it isn't used on humans right now. However, with further research that risk may be brought down to the point that it's extremely rare. If perfected this will literally save the lives of millions.
This isn't bringing back the dead. This isn't giving immortality. All this is doing is extending the period of time a person can be revived. If someone dies before the procedure is performed, this wont' bring them back. If someone is on the brink of death and will die before they get to the hospital, this could save their life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanRyuko
God did not give us the ability to do so. We found it ourselves. Have you ever heard the terms, "God's Love" and "God's Gift"? The Gift is Salvation through christ, but the love is the freedom of will. We may do whatever we please here, but depending on what we do, the "Gift" may or may not be offered to us.
If god created man, god gave us the ability to think and reason. Every bit of technology we created came from those abilities. If god did not want us to invent methods of saving people's lives, why would he give us the ability to develop the methods to do so? Do you honestly believe god would want us to let some poor innocent person die in a car accident or of a heart attack when we knew a way to save them?
If the only way to "treat" a member of my family was to LITERALLY bring them back from the dead, with a relatively high chance of them being severely mentally and nervously damaged, then I would rather "let them slip away."
Now get your nose out of my private life.
True. I'd rather have a loved one stay dead, than see them suffering from mental and nervous damages because we don't want our loved one to go away from us.
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05-17-2008, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
It isn't bringing them back from the dead though. It's delaying death and increasing the period of time they can be resuscitated. This means many people who today would die in route to the hospital could be frozen until they got treatment.
Yes the procedure currently has a high risk of brain damage. This is why it isn't used on humans right now. However, with further research that risk may be brought down to the point that it's extremely rare. If perfected this will literally save the lives of millions.
This isn't bringing back the dead. This isn't giving immortality. All this is doing is extending the period of time a person can be revived. If someone dies before the procedure is performed, this wont' bring them back. If someone is on the brink of death and will die before they get to the hospital, this could save their life.
If god created man, god gave us the ability to think and reason. Every bit of technology we created came from those abilities. If god did not want us to invent methods of saving people's lives, why would he give us the ability to develop the methods to do so? Do you honestly believe god would want us to let some poor innocent person die in a car accident or of a heart attack when we knew a way to save them?
It's not bringing them back, but it's holding them until we can stop their death. A person who was meant to die would no longer die. Heart attack victims would be frozen in the ambulance and would arrive at the hospital, medicines and doctors ready. They get unfrozen and the heart attack is treated. The only thing this may or may not help against is cancer and AIDS-Related Diseases.
@The god part: God also gave us the ability to kill, to betray our country, to destroy billions of people at will (nukes), to kill our parents and sleep with our sisters, to eat our children and burn the earth to dust. Does this mean we should do those too? I mean, God gave them to us, right?
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05-18-2008, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanRyuko
It's not bringing them back, but it's holding them until we can stop their death. A person who was meant to die would no longer die. Heart attack victims would be frozen in the ambulance and would arrive at the hospital, medicines and doctors ready. They get unfrozen and the heart attack is treated. The only thing this may or may not help against is cancer and AIDS-Related Diseases.
Actually there's quite a lot of things it won't help with. Most diseases, unrepairable injury like say being shot in the head, stuff like that. It would also require one to get to the victim while they're still alive.
Quote:
@The god part: God also gave us the ability to kill, to betray our country, to destroy billions of people at will (nukes), to kill our parents and sleep with our sisters, to eat our children and burn the earth to dust. Does this mean we should do those too? I mean, God gave them to us, right?
God also specificly said not to do those things. There was that whole thing with the 10 commandments, as well as another, much longer list full of things not to do. I can't seem to remember the one where god says thou shalt deny life saving treatment to the sick and injured. Perhaps you can quote the part of the bible that god says we should just let people die even if we know how to save their life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by seshmaru
no, they were clinically dead.
Which isn't the same as dead dead. Right now we can revive people who have been clinically dead for a few minutes. The reason we can only do a few minutes? The lack of oxygen to the brain causes irreversable brain damage. All this does is provide a method of delaying that brain damage and extend the time for them to be revived. This isn't stumbling on a corpse and bringing it back. This is a method of delaying real death until treatment can be rendered. The only problem, at the moment this also causes brain damage. If that can be overcome, this will be a tremendous breakthrough.
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05-18-2008, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
God also specificly said not to do those things. There was that whole thing with the 10 commandments, as well as another, much longer list full of things not to do. I can't seem to remember the one where god says thou shalt deny life saving treatment to the sick and injured. Perhaps you can quote the part of the bible that god says we should just let people die even if we know how to save their life?
Well, we do have the ability, and some other holy test say explicitly to preserve life. However, I don't know, this just seems to take it a bit far. Imagine a 85% reduction in deaths, coupled with a 150% population growth. 7bil + 3.5bil = 10.5 billion people, and if only 15% of them die from incurable/irreparable things, that's still 9 billion people. You want that?
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05-18-2008, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanRyuko
Well, we do have the ability, and some other holy test say explicitly to preserve life. However, I don't know, this just seems to take it a bit far. Imagine a 85% reduction in deaths, coupled with a 150% population growth. 7bil + 3.5bil = 10.5 billion people, and if only 15% of them die from incurable/irreparable things, that's still 9 billion people. You want that?
Where are you getting an 85% reduction in deaths from? This will save people who can be saved now with immediate treatment. The main groups to benefit would be accident victims and people having heart attacks. Even then it's only if the ambulance gets there before they die.
While overpopulation will be a problem, it's also completely irrelevent to this discussion. This won't magicly keep people alive indefinately. This will allow us to save people who we could save now if we could just get them to a hospital in time. Most people who would die now would still die if this procedure was available. However, there's a lot of people who could be saved by this.
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05-18-2008, 10:59 AM
I have to completely agree with Kamui.. hell, what does overpulation have to do with this? Do we have to say "lol sorry, we go cure but we won't cure you because we are too many on this Earth, whoever dies, dies.. we won't cure them lolz"... that's just a stupid way of reasoning....
05-17-2008, 11:21 AM
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