Three years ago before graduation of highschool I had a final exam in history that was taken orally. It was a german school, so it was no surprise that the topic was the Third Reich and WW2. in short, I recited some of the generally accepted opinion that it wasnt just Hitler being the single source of evil, but rather a common sentiment in the population after losing WW1 and the look-away attitude that led to the Holocaust.
The final question was "do you see similar danger in the modern world?" and I felt pretty good about myself when I came up that Russia, after the collapse of USSR, might be in a similar situation. Even back then, Putin was looked up pretty skeptically, and nationalistic sentiments were apparent.
It basically shows that Russia doesnt only have a doubtful and intransparent democracy with a way too powerful president which is my impression so far, but also has a population with a brooding nationalistic anger.
D:
WTF is going on there? I know this is merely a facette of Russia, but isnt a party like that supposed to be forbidden? Dont they learn from history?
btw: woxxy sounds like those russian guys when talking english
Last edited by guorbatschow; 05-12-2008 at 08:25 AM.
It basically shows that Russia doesnt only have a doubtful and intransparent democracy with a way too powerful president which is my impression so far, but also has a population with a brooding nationalistic anger.
D:
WTF is going on there? I know this is merely a facette of Russia, but isnt a party like that supposed to be forbidden? Dont they learn from history?
btw: woxxy sounds like those russian guys when talking english
What does fascism have to do with this? I know the national feeling but... it's not like this in my opinion, because fascism was way more based on organization, sindacalization, while Russia is the total contrary about this. For now, it covers only nationalism and dictatorship (because that's what Putin is, a dictator). Russa is misorganized, economy is a joke, there's no control on the population like fascism proposed, neither on the culture.
Just because it's becoming nationalistic, it's still far away from fascism.
My voice has more to do with russia and me with fascism than russia with fascism.
The situation is still very odd, because we know, burocrats could push on this situation. Nothing is as easy to use for politics than a genuine nationalistic hate towards others.
did you even watch the video? the way this NSO is organized is clearly fascist for me o.o and they do seem to get sympathy from large parts of the population.
maybe fascist is a not so good choice of word, maybe i should title it nationalsocialistic...
Last edited by guorbatschow; 05-12-2008 at 08:31 AM.
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05-12-2008, 12:52 PM
As long as Putin/Medvedev and their fellow oligarchs don't turn nationalsocialistic, there really is no cause to worry. Let's face it - a Revolution or something similiar should be organized by a very strong organisation/party with radicals of course.
Since there is no such 'force' and really no much interest into following this path, I [as in myself] don't see any threat. Why should that rich upper class involved into world economics/politics start practicing rassism/xenophobia? As if they wouldn't need Kazachstan as much as Germany, Hungary, France and so on.
As about the NSO- really it may seem they are difficult to handle, but for the Police so used to all those KGB methods- piece of cake. Pseudo-terrorists revealing their tactics on the internet. Fail.
As long as Putin/Medvedev and their fellow oligarchs don't turn nationalsocialistic, there really is no cause to worry. Let's face it - a Revolution or something similiar should be organized by a very strong organisation/party with radicals of course.
Since there is no such 'force' and really no much interest into following this path, I [as in myself] don't see any threat. Why should that rich upper class involved into world economics/politics start practicing rassism/xenophobia? As if they wouldn't need Kazachstan as much as Germany, Hungary, France and so on.
As about the NSO- really it may seem they are difficult to handle, but for the Police so used to all those KGB methods- piece of cake. Pseudo-terrorists revealing their tactics on the internet. Fail.
i dont know... it doesnt seem only to be a thing of those extremists. the general russian population seem to become hostile towards foreigners, which is a dangerous trend... D:
I've seen similar videos like this before (and these kind of events certainly aren't a Russia-only phenomenon) and I'm ashamed of not being shocked by this.
If humanity is going to take this path, I'm not sure if there'll be any humanity left in a few decades.
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05-12-2008, 03:19 PM
There's four russians in my class. Only one of them is not from Moscow. She (yes Elena again. xP ) lived in a town called Krasnadad (that's just a wild stab at the spelling there) that's more to the south of Russia, more near the middle east and eastern Europe.
The conversation came up when I mentioned I didn't miss the U.S. or my home, and wondered if I was heartless for it. I then explained that Oklahoma was just a bunch of close-minded religious right wingers who can't be accepting of anything that's not exactly like them. She definitely topped me by saying she didn't miss home either, but rather because the close-minded people there resort to more than just being assholes: they resort to violence.
But it's definitely not a good thing. This sort of racism IS what causes major conflicts. I look at the world today and I think a World War is near impossible as long as we all have decent IQ's. Media coverage and weapons that are TOO powerful make starting a war very risky. If you start a war with Poland, you better believe the entire world will know about it within 24 hours, and about 8 other countries that hear about it are TOTALLY capable of whiping you off the map. But racism like that is just...how on earth would you convince one of those guys to change? I'm not saying it's a dire situation right now, but if russian children continue to grow up and see that and think it's somewhat normal or somewhat ok, it'll only get worse, as it'll be easier to coax them into groups like the NSO, and then the NSO will quickly gain power.
I don't think that intelligence is the answer, Long. I think it's poverty. If you look at nations that have become dangerously nationalistic and racist, it's almost a sure bet that you'll find that they're poor as dirt, and looking to blame someone. It's a natural human reaction, after all. You can't kick in the teeth of a downturn in the housing market in the U.S. that led to a decline in world markets, etc., etc., so you find a Jew instead. It doesn't make anything better, but it seems to them like it should. They need someone to blame, and can't see that it's either no-one or themselves.
In addition, poverty makes for violence. When you don't have anything to lose, going to jail, being hurt, or even killed isn't such a big deal anymore. You'll go from almost starving to death in a small, overcrowded room to almost starving to death in a small, overcrowded jail. At that point, depression and anger are almost unstoppable, and people will do terrible things to themselves and others.
So, whether Russia is becoming facist or not, it needs to overcome its economic difficulties, and create stability within its borders. When that happens, the racialism will probably decrease, and life will become better for everyone.
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05-12-2008, 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshineko
I don't think that intelligence is the answer, Long. I think it's poverty. If you look at nations that have become dangerously nationalistic and racist, it's almost a sure bet that you'll find that they're poor as dirt, and looking to blame someone. It's a natural human reaction, after all. You can't kick in the teeth of a downturn in the housing market in the U.S. that led to a decline in world markets, etc., etc., so you find a Jew instead. It doesn't make anything better, but it seems to them like it should. They need someone to blame, and can't see that it's either no-one or themselves.
In addition, poverty makes for violence. When you don't have anything to lose, going to jail, being hurt, or even killed isn't such a big deal anymore. You'll go from almost starving to death in a small, overcrowded room to almost starving to death in a small, overcrowded jail. At that point, depression and anger are almost unstoppable, and people will do terrible things to themselves and others.
So, whether Russia is becoming facist or not, it needs to overcome its economic difficulties, and create stability within its borders. When that happens, the racialism will probably decrease, and life will become better for everyone.
Wait wut? Dx Where did I mention intelligence?
I thought I simply said it is a serious issue, cause as generations continue to grow up seeing that and thinking it's ok (perhaps not even ok, but rather simply they don't see it as an absolute wrong), then the actions pictured there continue to become more and more accepted, because it'd be much easier for those groups to lure people in when their views on those groups are even less negative than they are today. Then they gain power, then shit goes down, bla bla bla...
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05-14-2008, 06:42 PM
One of the biblical prophecies is that Russia collapses ( Fall of the USSR ) but near 2009-ish, it re-emerges as one of the strongest countries again. I think they're on that path, honestly. Fast changes appear radical to us, but I think it may do some good.
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05-15-2008, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanRyuko
One of the biblical prophecies is that Russia collapses ( Fall of the USSR ) but near 2009-ish, it re-emerges as one of the strongest countries again. I think they're on that path, honestly. Fast changes appear radical to us, but I think it may do some good.
Only positive outcome I see here is, I brought up this video to my russian friend, and when she heard the dudes bitching about foreigners taking jobs, she said "WTF there's SOOO many jobs there! Enough for everyone!"
Perhaps if something happens and foreigners charge in there regardless, that could lead to a good change.
Or perhaps biblical prophecies say a lot of things...Weren't we supposed to die in 2000? And 2006?
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05-15-2008, 02:02 PM
No Russia is definitely not turning Fascist. The majority of the population look down on such things. By the way how is Russia turning Fascist? Putin is more interested in the ways of the past and Communism and Fascism are opposites on the political spectrum.
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05-15-2008, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenix
No Russia is definitely turning Fascist. The majority of the population look down on such things. By the way how is Russia turning Fascist? Putin is more interested in the ways of the past and Communism and Fascism are opposites on the political spectrum.
guorbatschow
Russia... turning fascist? -
05-12-2008, 08:02 AM
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