[Suinia]

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Originally Posted by Moshineko

But, we had to have the material goods here on Earth. It was all about stealing the moon from the Communists, short-term greed, rather than long-term. And that's where the human race is failing. Rather than asking how I can live 300 years and have what I need for it, I ask how I can live like a rich man NOW. I eat fast food and buy giant TVs with toxic bits, and tell myself I'll deal with my problems later. With a little biochemical switch, maybe I could realize that all times are 'now', and when 'now' comes up, I'll wish I was long-term greedy 'then'.

Actually I quite agree with this.

People seem to be able to see the short term "Smoke stacks with no scrubbers is cheaper" etc etc... So I see us getting into a REAL situation (in the not ALL that distant future)
And then of course people will be like WTF WHERE DID THIS COME FROM?
.

[bhamlaxy]

Consider this, your a poor child in africa, your parents are dead, all the food and medicle supplys that could have saved them is being taken by richer in gluttony.
How would you feel in that position?

Luckily I am not. I am a rich white boy from America, so I get whatever I want.

In the end, they are poor so we can be rich. There is absolutely no day the industrialized western world would be anywhere close to where it is today without massive imperialism, slavery, war, and extremely unfair trading policies. It sucks, but its what we are built on, and its what continues our dominance. I like riding high, so we should continue to do so. I'll donate to charity, volunteer once in a while etc., but I'm not about massive redistribution of wealth or anything.

and btw i DO give change to homeless people because I at least care that much.

Unfortunately, a lot of that time that money is going straight to a cocaine/heroin dealer, or to buy alcohol.

We're simply overpopulating the earth and even though there might be enough food to feed everyone, some people wont give that up. Why? Because men (man and woman in general) are greedy, Greed is what Humans are. Most of us aren't but majority are.

This is typical. Americans consume WAAAAAAY more resources than we need to live, waste massive amounts of food, water, oil, etc., and spend billions a year on complete commodities that do nothing to enrich our lives, and then you come along and blame the Africans for having too many babies?

[Suinia]

I agree with a few points above ^

The thing I wonder is, why do you think you have the right to say 'oh who gives a fuck about the africans?

Face it. You were lucky to be born where you were. Are you sayign that people born in Africa should have to suffer JUST because they were not born in as fortunate circumstances as you?

[Moshineko]

Well, it comes down to a basic principle of consciousness, really. I am me. If kids in Africa starve, well, hell, who am I to know, I feel nice and full. That's humanity for you. Can't do much different than that. The problems of other people will never effect us as much as our own, their glands are over in Africa, mine are here, giving me shit if I don't eat every eight hours or so, or if I miss out on sleep for a day, they're right there, pumping acid into my stomach, shunting fatigue poisons into my system.

When it comes down to it, we can ignore other people's problems, that's easy. Ignoring our own is, by evolutionary design, impossible.

So that's the basic reason that when you're fat and happy, you could honestly give a crap less about starving people. You just don't have the impetus to really care. Your glands are happy, thus they make you happy. If you could find out a way to make rich people have to put up with the glands of the poor? Well, you'd just get a bunch of people trying to make themselves feel better again.

[guorbatschow]

Originally Posted by Moshineko

\
Quite a good reason not to. If a majority of those 8,000,000,000 people die, that's more for your extended family. Less people means more resources for all.

But, there's a good reason to feed them as well. Fat people rarely cause trouble. It sounds like a joke, but look at crime rates in wealthy countries as opposed to poor. How many American suicide bombers are there?
When you have a good life, leaving it seems a little less glamorous, and sticking around becomes priority #1.

heh. by this logic i couldnt care less. when the hungry people are all cramped up in their own countries, crime rate doesnt reach me.

but humanity contradicts evolution: rich countries have low birth rate, poor countries have high birth rate. wtf.

[AidanRyuko]

Originally Posted by guorbatschow

heh. by this logic i couldnt care less. when the hungry people are all cramped up in their own countries, crime rate doesnt reach me.

but humanity contradicts evolution: rich countries have low birth rate, poor countries have high birth rate. wtf.

Well in America, to fully deliver a baby and take full care of it in all aspects costs more than a luxury car. On the other side, to have a baby in africa is nothing. Delivery is usually in the hut and the care is divided amongst family members.

The reason they have tons of babies is the reason old-timey american families were huge. More children in the family means more hands that can work as they grow up. Meaning, more income. However, they don't see that more children means more food needed to feed the family.

Personally, the problem isn't in Overpopulation, but more-so in management of resources. We have resturants on every friggen corner in America, but Africa and parts of Asia don't have reliable food sources in sight. Even then, there'd be almost no way to put money into circulation in those areas. Most times businesses attempt to goto Africa they get pushed back out from some kinda factor.

Those places are just not going to get fixed easily. Not much we, as individuals can do. Maybe their suffering will end with the "End-Times" being around the corner.

[SoulHeart]

Humans are indeed greedy beings.
Some people out there think that giving food and money and all that other good stuff to all of poor starving people in the under developed countries is a good thing, think of it this way.
Lets say everyday you give food, clothing, etc, to a man who lost all his money and is broke.
He will just start depending on you to keep him alive instead of finding a job and making his own money.
It is human nature after all to take the easy way out.
But there are indeed places that need food and stuff to even get back on their feet.
I find it better to teach them rather then to just let them mooch off you for the rest of their life.
But some problems with some of these places is that they resist drastic change and will do everything they can, even get violent, to keep it from happening.

As for resources, sure we have it, but we are also wasting it like there is no tomorrow.
Take a normal family in lets say America, they throw away food like there is no tomorrow.
The fact that there are so many people who blindly wastes resources is sucking away at supply that could have been send to these people.

Yes, humans are greedy beings.
Those who have, don't want to give.
Those who don't have, want and will keep wanting.

EDIT: Text enlarged to make for easier reading.

[OwL]

Originally Posted by Curisu

You see the problem is that everyone is trying to take care of everyone else's country. I think if we took care of one country at a time as in getting the homeless fed and homed and we did it just one country at a time then we would be working more efficiently. I mean think about it; If we take care of one country at a time, then we could move faster because that would be one less we would have to take care of once they finished their task their of feeding, homing, and teaching how to get and make food. I know it seems cruel to say this but in all reality its true. I mean step out into a local city and look at all the homeless you see...its sad really...we can't take care of one country but we are going around trying to take care of other countries? Sorry to me that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense...

One country at a time? Lmao.

First, "we"? Who are we? The world? Ohh of course, first country to work on?

The United States of America? Perfect! I'll starve to dead homeless waiting for all the inhabitants of the U.S. to be feed and homed. No worries, I'll sit here peacefully waiting for the help of "we". Not like I can migrate to the country that is being given the resources, oh no, I'll wait my turn. :3

While I can't deny human greed is one of the main motors of innovation and development, I disagree on using the fact humans are greedy by nature to justify others' disgrace. I can't stand the "Well, I'm like that, it's in my nature, can't change it."

You think the poor man is not greedy? Well, tell you something, he is greedy too. But tell you another thing. He doesn't have the same tools (capital, education, etc) as you have to cover it's needs. He wants to reach the same point you want to reach (happiness, welfare, luxuries) but he just can't. Or will need to make an extra effort to get the same good as you.

[wrtjhaw]

Just a comment in regards to overpopulation.
Fertility rates are MUCH higher in poorer countries than in 1st world countries.
I recall a statistic of a fertility rate of 8.xx children per woman in Rawanda, one of the poorest countries in the world, and that other similar countries have 7.xx fertility rates.

[lightning12]

rich countries using most of their money to check if there aliens in outer space about 100mil o r something like that instead of using that money on the homeless quoted from dr.abu ameenah bilal philips a famous muslim scholar

[Moshineko]

Originally Posted by lightning12

rich countries using most of their money to check if there aliens in outer space about 100mil o r something like that instead of using that money on the homeless quoted from dr.abu ameenah bilal philips a famous muslim scholar

No... rich countries spend a majority of their money trying to stay rich. Scientists try to get that money to research anything and everything (quite a bit of which has gone into making that fancy computer you're writing your anti-capitalist ideals on), and the governments and corporations of the world give them money in the hopes that they'll discover somethign that makes even more money.

Governments are made out of people, and people, for the most part, could give a shit about aliens unless they can sell them things or the aliens are trying to take our money. People care about getting enough to eat and having a place to stay, making themselves and their families happy.

The entire idea that it's a mysterious, shadowy force stealing all our money that we were going to use to do good is not only disingenuous, it's dangerous. That's the same line Hitler fed to people at the beginning of WWII, the same garbage Bush fed us to get us involved in Iraq, and the same crap that prevents people from actually doing anything about problems. If it's "the government", or "the Jews", or "the terrorists", the group becomes to big to defeat, and we don't have to do anything about it, because we're just one person, how can we hope to defeat the giant group? Oh, no, guess we'd better not even try.