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Final post to resolve the V12 Knight issue on the officials. If anyone has any proper objections to it, then I can edit it to accommodate the needs of everyone. All of this was with merged with suggestions and posts people have made regarding Knight balancing.

Poll can be found here


Regarding Knights in V12-
Taken from here and here because the threads will seemingly get ignored. Xagel, the changes that you issued to the Devs simply aren't enough to accommodate to the needs of Knights. While nearly every other class gets supercharged in some way, Knights get measly results in return which is slowly making them obsolete. This is what we would like, along with information to back up the claim. Please note that these are all just suggestions of which you can consider.

- Pain reflection back to it's original %50

- Sneaker changed to have a cooldown or duration decrease

- Better 120 Set (Knights and Jesters have the worst out of all classes)

- Better 120 Axe (The %10 FP makes it just as useless as the MP % on the Bloody bow. This Axe is just a 105 axe with 4 more added STR)

- Better 120 Sword ( To be used for 1v1 purposes, because when it comes to AoE, Knights don't use the swords at all for it's slow casting time)

- Reflex Hit fixed for once (To support the low damage. It can have a 5 second cooldown of some sort and unable to be used in action slot. However, I would like this skill to be a Knight skill and not a mercenary one so people can have a reason to make Knights. When it worked it refected back the damage you took during the time it took to cast it, so it wouldn't be overpowered because it's all about timing.

- Increased % of which SwordCross occurs


• Knights are one of the most useless classes in Flyff next to Rangers in PvP. Knights were popular back in v5/v6 because nobody had Mighteers to deal high damage to them. Everyone wanted a Knight in their Guild to serve as the tank in guildwars. After v7, people became Sta whores and Knights lost what they were best at. Sta RMs make much better tanks now due to prevention.

• In Siege, Knights are there to sneaker and kill lowbies(if there are any) with 1k-2k Keenwheels. Just look at a Psy though. Can have up to 50k+ HP and still do 5k-8k Spirit Bombs. Knights can get up to 60k+ HP sure, but their damage suffers more than other classes.

Regarding Pain Reflection- Even when it was %50, it hardly made a difference and people could easily food against it, unlike crucio. It's just when you compare to other classes, Knights are seen as punching bags with no real damage output. Knights need any kind of reflection to prove their HP to be useful. Adding only %10-15 to pain reflection will hardly make a difference.

It's better to grab an RM with 50k+ hp that HC's and is actually useful compared to a knight that has high HP but can do nothing against higher HP classes. Which brings up the question of why should people continue to make Knights when the class has no real potential anymore and their HP isn't as great as it used to be, especially when you have RMs being able to reach 70k+ HP. I don't see how %50 reflection would be overpowered when you have people doing 40k HoPs and 70k Asals (Both not HC'd btw).


Regarding Sneaker: I don't see any reason why the merc class should have a 47 second Satan. That was a job for Psys and gave uniqueness to their class, not Knights/Blades.

Sneaker is now the way it is for:
• Increasing Holy scroll sales
• To be used with the Knight Hero skill
• To be used with the Blade Hero skill

But view it in the perspective of another class when you have a dozen mercs giving you a 47 second satan. A short lasting skill Psys get at Lvl65 while mercs get a 47 second one at Lvl20? What are Psys for then?

RM's are better tanks than Knights, which just proves Knights uselessness if even a support class can out tank them. If an RM can tank 70+ mobs and a Knight can't, then who's the better tank? If an RM or BP with 70k+ HP has 4 people on them and a Knight does too, who is going to survive longer? A 50k HP Knight doing a measly 2k keenwheel on 40k+ HP people in siege. Compare that to an RM that can buff & HC everyone while being the better tank at the same time. Who is more useful?

Regarding 120 Sets- People argue that Rangers have the worst 120 sets which is false.

DEX +10 Critical +20% Defense +25% HP +15%

Alot of Rangers complain about having little crit rate for use in PvP so they can combine skills+normal hits. With the %20 crit, they can actually make use of the Bloody/LG bow instead of just using the Angels bow all the time. On top of that they get a good defense rating and HP. IMO they don't need the extra block from the v7 sets because at 120 Rangers would have max block anyway. So this set gives them everything they need.

But Knights and Jesters get..

Knight: STA +10 STR +10 Defense +15% HP +15%

Extremely crappy. +10 Sta would add around 1k HP to a 120 knight and the 10 str would add like 100 damage. The V7 set's block bonus is still much better than this set. Also, why did knights only get %15 of defense and HP while other classes got more like %25 or %22?

Jester: STR +10 DEX +10 Defense +15% HP +15%

Very useless. The Str+10 will only add around 200-280 damage to HoP. The dex is useless because Jesters skill spam in PvP. They also got a crappy %15 on both HP and defense.

I agree that all classes aren't all made for pvp, but I would still like to see Knights to have a better tanking ability than others at the very least. Since thats what they were made for =/

And about Psys getting crucio back..they fair much better than knights in siege and in regular arena pvp so I don't see why they should get it back. They aren't a tank class.


Regarding 1v1- Knights get %-10 attack speed when they switch jobs at 60. They aren't the real tanks of this game and and are too slow when it comes to 1v1 until they have access to constant GT at Lvl94. So what are they good for then?

Click to see SpeedBreaks

Speedbreaks are hard to achieve without a LARGE amount of Dex.

Regarding Knights as a Tank Class-
I've never understood why the Assist class even has prevention to begin with. It makes RMs (A support class) and BPs with high Sta the best tankers. And it's a high survivability skill that Billposters use even though they have the strongest skill the game. A class with the strongest 1HKO skill shouldn't be having a high survivability skill like prevention.

Knights get the highest HP per sta.

That is also easily countered by billposters second highest HP per sta, and many armors and weapons that give great +HP% bonuses, and prevention.

Also, in AoEing (click on links to view examples):

•Eles are the best damage dealers and don't get touched by mobs if they don't want to be. (Lv.65 Ele's Aoeing popcranks is an example)

•Rangers are the fastest gatherers with highest block and get the most EXP over time.

•Ringmasters can take the most mobs without ever needing to heal.

But what about Knights? Not the best mobber that's for sure. Knights purpose in flyff is to be the ultimate tank class, but they aren't which makes them...there, and nothing else. I'm also up for prevention having a cooldown or restoring less HP when maxed.


• Conclusion:
The main complain about Knights is that they excel in nothing, so the objective of this thread is to make Knights a more specialized class: either make them better damage dealers, or make them better tankers. But not be outclassed at both. What is the point of playing a class if you don't actually excel in anything whatsoever?


Whats the point of making a Knight when people are getting similar HP and make better tanks nowadays? They are nothing special compared to other classes in 1v1 either.

i have a 107 knight on lawolf, and while i love it in arena, we're absolutely outmatched in seige. just my build and gear real quick: +10 lgba, +8knighz +28%hp, 122str, 120stam.

my main gripe is our damage. it sucks. and it has nothing to do with my gear. i'm on a LGBA+10 and strente+2s and my keenwheel is still like 1.5k. and you know what that means? i can't get through prevention. so i can't even kill a [I Have a Potty Mouth] RM.

in seige, all i can do is run around, target BJs, YJs and Rangers, and kill them.

v12's main deal is supposedly BALANCING pvp. well, knights are complete crap right now. everyone has/can have HP like us, but they all do more dmg. we have nothing going for us right now.

i know im really late on this
im still a merc and i want to be a knight. on whative been hearing and seeing about knights it dperresing. id go to blade but my build is nothing but str and sta. if this is what i have to look forawrd to as a knight, then why bother. but im true to a cause and make the most out of what i have

Their weapons naturally have a higher Atk rating then all the others, but several other classes overpower them easily. >_> Pretty stupid, to be honest.

Either the weaker classes need a huge power boost, or the overpowered classes need to be seriously nerfed.

I'm pretty mad at Knight skill damage though, because I can never pass prevention on my 110 Knight. My keenwheels hit for almost 2kish(Fully buffed and upcut ONLY) but I can't tank an asal with these v11 overpowered shields BPs have now. They have ASAL but I can't even hit through prevention. Why does a class with a 1HKO skill even have prevention? On top of that, I'm pretty much useless in Siege. Everyone has alot of HP so I can't even kill [I Have a Potty Mouth] jesters with their 20k+ HP or psys and other people with 40-60k+ HP. My tanking sucks as well so I really don't see the point of Knights anymore. Every class can have the same HP as me but outdamage me. They need serious change. I think reflex hit would help alot. But only if it's a Knight skill, not a merc one so people have a reason to make knights as said in the first post.

Updated 4/21/08

[seinosuke]

Ya i agree, the first character i ever made was a merc and i was soooooo hyped to make it a knight and by the time i was a knight and made it to lvl 68 i was soooo dissapointed, seriously the class was lame to me, also the armor is an eye-sore its not that great looking, soooo now i have a blade lvl 79 and i love it, except for the part where swarms of ppl come asking for plvls . But yeah for the sake of the knight it needs some help in my opinion :P. (Oh and for the ppl thinking ur gonna b just like cloud or sephiroth or something from ur little fanboy fantasy ur wrong XP)

[Sinner]

- Increase in Keenwheel/Splmash's base damage
It's okay as it is, there's knights with 30k+ hp that do 3-4k keenwheels, boosting knight's too much isn't balance.
- Pain reflection back to it's original %50
25% or 30% would be ideal, back to 50% is a bit to much to be honest, knights just need enough reflect to keep them as the best tanks
- Old Sneaker effect back
Fully agreed.
- Better 120 Set (Knights and Jesters have the worst out of all classes)
Again, agreed, knights and jesters need better sets
- Reflex Hit fixed for once
It could be interesting, it's all about timing to so it wouldn't be over powered, especially with siege lag
- Make defense actually do something in Pvp
Yes, that would benefit most classes that use PvP builds, not just knights

[Karishin]

my first char in v6 was a merc i got him to 60 so bent on tankin any one that ever wanted sum when i gained knighthoodby the time he was 67 i said fuck it he sucked though he had hp whore worthiness he was like a baby tiger pawin at his attackers feet while he slowly died

[ieswk]

I dont mind the new sneaker effect but the 50% pain reflect is need ed as well as defence so it would be possible to survive an asal attack and other high damaging classes seeing as knights arent the best damage dealers. we should be able to at least tank well in pvp

[AbeBlinkin]

Give knights a ranged attack like guillotine thats powerful and based on how much percentage of your FP pool is left.

Sneaker and Muscle Bomb anyone?

[Superassist]

There isn't even a point to USE pain reflection in PvP anymore, some guy was doing 300 on me, he got 7........WTH

So, now I guess 300/2 = 7?

[Saardon]

I was planning to use a Knight just as a tanker for an AoE buddy, someone we are making together. Still I didn't know all the changes made to them, all the fualts...it should work since it SHOULD have the best tanker capableties at lower levels, more so if it is full STA.

Wait...I can still see the nerf stick marks left by the game makers, damn it all; I'm I wrong again?!

If I'm, then there doesn't seem to be any point to a AoE or STA Knight any more. May as well make a mostly full STA RingMaster, just for the hell of it.

[ieswk]

...muscle bomb....
A ranged knight attack would be cool tho. If they increase the damage of guillotine and up the range that would be helpful

[Wraae]

What is the old Sneaker effect ?

[ieswk]

slowed mobs down instead of holding them in place. I dont mind the new effect as its better for saving ur rm. But old sneaker would be cool if it works in pvp. and it was always a great help with the cw.

[rook]

I don't se 50% reflect any more overpowered than 70k asals or 40k hops.

[Kaiko]

o_O where the hell do you see 40k PvP HoPs?

[rook]

Originally Posted by Kaiko

o_O where the hell do you see 40k PvP HoPs?

I guess you could try clicking http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3...ff00095bh1.jpg Yeah it's HC'd but anyways, it's still 38k and nothing can change that.

found another one, someone just hasn't updated the records assume http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=42khopqw5.jpg and this is without hc

[guorbatschow]

keep in mind that pain reflect also reflects skill damage, which is pretty unfair if reverted to 50%