[Halu]

REGISTER TO REMOVE THIS AD

obviously u havent sieged, with ppl with velo scrolls, by the time u hit powerstomp, ur target is already miles away.
and defence still works, just not alot, mp skills doesnt affect def, fp skills does, so u can see how fp skills deal lower/higher dmg to ppl with different lvl. while with mp skills, u get 3k, u get 3k everytime(since there is no magic def?)

[suri]

Originally Posted by Zoras_99

Stun is a problem but still, powerstump weak damage? Its the second highest damaging knight skill. And you call it weak compared with other skills? Let me know of those other skills. And no, if you stun with PowerStump you CAN stun other 3 time sin a row with ease, so, it IS usefull.



So what if it doesnt lower asal damage? Thats nothing new. If you havent noticed about it, having high def at Pvp is useless now. Everyone has mights, hurray for our defense to be breached by any dexing BP/Blade.

I miss V5-6, when having high def reduced damage from other players. If they fix something, i want them to fix our defense been penetrate by anyone instead of making it reduce 200 asal/hop damage.

I wasn't actually comparing powerstomp to the rest of the knight skills, I was looking at the damage it deals compared to other skills used in PvP generally (example; spirit bombs). I can see how powerstomp is useful to a knight, but mostly effective in PvM imo, it could be furthermore improved. I don't remember mentioning powerstomp was useless in any way, perhaps you are able to stun thrice in a row (was that what you meant? didn't really get you there), but I was never able to repeatedly stun others in the arena successfully with powerstomp, even if I did, the effect was too short to make much of a difference compared to BP/RM with stonehand.

I guess I wasn't being specific enough, but my intention of mentioning defense against asal was not to have asal or HoP damage lowered, its just one of those skills in PvP that came into mind. Knights are known to have high defense, and I want it to come into use when PvPing, against any classes/skills, to have a more obvious effect in PvP.

[e-brawl]

Powerstump's range is very minimal and it's more of a PvM skill. It's a non-target Aoe which is good when leveling, but in PvP you can get away from it very easily and ranged classes can easily smack the Knight that's powerstumping, unlike Windfield for example, which is a targeted Aoe you can't get away from.

Defense is only useful at like levels 15 to 7x. Beyond 8x it starts getting less and less useful and then at 105 it's rendered completely useless because of the following:

-Blades have crits along with crit damage that nearly ignores defense.

-HoP ignores defense

-Asal ignores defense

-Magic ignores defense

-Jesters (Yoyo and Bow) also have crits along with crit damage that nearly ignore defense.

The only class it would have an impact on would be Rangers, but they need PvP help just as well as Knights do.

About Power Swing, I think that if it knockbacked and pushbacked at the same time it could be much more useful.

[AbeBlinkin]

How about giving knights a power attack that is affected by defense!

[Sin Soul]

Overpower Knights! Give them a STA Based AoE Attack!

j/k :P

[Longknife]

- Pain reflection back to it's original %50

I don't see why not, though I do hope Knights realize that, honestly...this skill was a joke to 99% of the PVP community. Only thing it really stopped was BJ's, who were ALREADY stopped by Pan barrier. It should've also served to make Knights even more of a bitch for YJ's, but like...til the recent versions (in which PR wasn't even there) Knights have always managed to lose to YJ's...somehow. xP

- Old Sneaker effect back (or the current with a cooldown/duration decrease)

This'll simply be decided based on how Aeonsoft wants the game; not really a balance issue.

- Better 120 Set (Knights and Jesters have the worst out of all classes)

LOLWUT? Wtf is wrong with it? You get 10 of the two most important stats to Knights, then % rates on the two things Knights have the most of.

Why it has no block: That's just how it is. Honestly I'd choose the v7 set over the 120 set no matter what class I was.

Why it has less HP as others: Ever think that MAYBE, since Knights have the most HP, they need to be careful how much more they give Knights in regards to HP?

- Better 120 Axe (The %10 FP makes it just as useless as the MP % on the Bloody bow. This Axe is just a 105 axe with 4 more added STR)

May or may not get fixed. Like yeah it sucks, but honestly, every class has a shit weapon like this here and there. The other stats are still good anyways, it's just the FP thing seems like a mockery.

- Better 120 Sword ( To be used for 1v1 purposes, because when it comes to AoE, Knights don't use the swords at all for it's slow casting time)

Agreed.

- Reflex Hit fixed for once (To support the low damage. It can have a 5 second cooldown of some sort and unable to be used in action slot. However, I would like this skill to be a Knight skill and not a mercenary one so people can have a reason to make Knights.

Agreed.

- Make defense actually be more effective in Pvp or increase Guard's Duration

Disagree, actually. I really doubt that it's so much that, defense is not really effective, but rather that every other homogay just goes with the full STR build. But meh, I could be wrong. The dev's will decide, I guess...












Anyways, felt like I should bring this up.



When I joined this game originally, and looked at my options for a class, Knights seems like a crap-option for me. They had to choose between damage or tanking; damage being doomed to ALWAYS be inferior to that of a Blade, tanking being useless on the battlefield.

Now that I look over the classes again for v11, I think much higher of them.



Why?

Go find that chart that shows how much each class gets of HP, FP, Defense, Block, etc etc etc per-whatever-stat-point. You'll notice Knights are on top for HP and defense, and second for block rate. Their attack rate on their weapons isn't half bad either.

From v7 to v11, a CRAP-TON of stats have been dumped into the stat pool. There's pets, the Hero quest, awakenings, Ultimate weapons, and better jewelry. Knights benefit a ton from every stat they gain, whereas other classes like Ranger, Psy, and Ele, may have trouble keeping up when their stat modifiers are generally so low.

Also, the new Sneaker actually benefits Knights. (though I agree, it may not be worth it since it's so fucking annoying. xD ) When used correct, it can keep a ranged class from taking advantage of their range. Hell, it can even be used against a Blade in a 1v1 duel. If a Knight Sneakers a blade, and the Blade realizes he better do the same to the Knight before the knight takes advantage of his AOE's range, then it simply comes down to Guillotine. Since Knights have better stat modifiers, and that's simply a numbers duel, the Knight would win.





Put simply, I'd give Knights time. Give items time to become more avaliable, and for pets with +30 stats to become more common. With every moment that this game grows older, Knights gain power. (Unlike Blades, who lose power as +10 sets and speedos become more common)

In v7, a full STA Knight could definitely tank, but couldn't kill. Well now, with all the jewelry, awakenings, pets, and weaponry avaliable, I dunno if that's still the case....















But yeah, I do agree the Merc classes, who unlike the other classes are more stat-focused than skill-focused, are, as a result, very cash shop dependant. And that sucks. D:

But how could we change that?? T3T

[e-brawl]

LOLWUT? Wtf is wrong with it? You get 10 of the two most important stats to Knights, then % rates on the two things Knights have the most of.

Why it has no block: That's just how it is. Honestly I'd choose the v7 set over the 120 set no matter what class I was.

Why it has less HP as others: Ever think that MAYBE, since Knights have the most HP, they need to be careful how much more they give Knights in regards to HP?

I don't understand this. Knights are supposed to be the best tanker in this game and you're saying that the devs should make every class in flyff match their HP and defense? That's the main reason why Knights are useless and overlooked atm and it's the main point I've pretty much been stressing.

You'll notice Knights are on top for HP and defense, and second for block rate. Their attack rate on their weapons isn't half bad either.

That's true, but seeing Knights don't add any Dex(besides 1v1 Knights), their blockrate is pretty much irrelevant. And their weapons have the highest attack rate in the game, yet do you see them as the best damage dealers?

I don't see why not, though I do hope Knights realize that, honestly...this skill was a joke to 99% of the PVP community. Only thing it really stopped was BJ's, who were ALREADY stopped by Pan barrier. It should've also served to make Knights even more of a bitch for YJ's, but like...til the recent versions (in which Page Ranking wasn't even there) Knights have always managed to lose to YJ's...somehow. xP

I've already mentioned that the skill was a joke a few pages back and it's true. Anyone can easily food past the skill, but I still think it should be there because it would make the high HP of a Knight actually a bit meaningful.

In v7, a full STA Knight could definitely tank, but couldn't kill. Well now, with all the jewelry, awakenings, pets, and weaponry avaliable, I dunno if that's still the case....

Yes, but tbh I'll always see a full STA RM do better and be more useful. Even though a full STA RM can't do decent damage, well guess what? A Knight wouldn't either to be quite honest >_>

[Longknife]

I don't understand this. Knights are supposed to be the best tanker in this game and you're saying that the devs should make every class in flyff match their HP and defense? That's the main reason why Knights are useless and overlooked atm and it's the main point I've pretty much been stressing.

No no, I'm not saying they need Knights HP to match that of others. I'm saying they can't let Knight HP get TOO through the roof, or it'll be hard to combat/balance. It still needs to be the best, but that doesn't mean we can let it just run wild.

That's true, but seeing Knights don't add any Dex(besides 1v1 Knights), their blockrate is pretty much irrelevant. And their weapons have the highest attack rate in the game, yet do you see them as the best damage dealers?

Really, is there a Holy Bible of Knights that tells you guys you can't add Dex? Just do it! Maybe you'll be shocked by the benefits.



Look, I'm absolutely sure there's a way to make Knights work in v11. In v7, I had a theory that a 3:1 ratio of STA:STR would work well on a Knight, and while I was thinking it through, two friends of mine coincidentally made it. They did great with it. Perhaps still a wild threat in PVP, but definitely at the average/above average mark, and definitely a total bitch to kill.


Knights, as it stands now, are totally capable of a free 30% block from sets, and could easily kick that up some more without too much Dex. A Knight could also focus all of his items on STR while focusing his build purely on STA, and come out doing just fine.









But what you say about the Assists is true. Prev is one of the reasons I scoffed at Knights back when I joined. Technically, prev has it's drawbacks, because passing a prev line defeats the whole purpose of prev. However, a RM with 30k HP will have a 3k prev line, which generally can only be CONSISTENTLY crossed by a mage spell, HoP, or Asal.

One could argue that Knights have more combat options than an RM, so it's no biggie. Still though, BP's have this same option. Hell, BP's can better abuse prev, because they have more defense and HP than an RM.


For that...dunno what to suggest. As an RM myself, I can tell you the class can definitely go under with just the slightest tinker. (prev could yeah, do it. :B ) It's also true though, that BP's have plenty to their name and would deserve the nerf. I definitely see the issue, just would rather find a solution that doesn't ef over my own class in the process. xD

[e-brawl]

Originally Posted by Longknife

No no, I'm not saying they need Knights HP to match that of others. I'm saying they can't let Knight HP get TOO through the roof, or it'll be hard to combat/balance. It still needs to be the best, but that doesn't mean we can let it just run wild.

I can understand about not giving a class too much of something and you have a point. But it doesn't exempt the fact that every other class besides Jesters and Knights got a better increase in either Defense or HP, which makes no sense at all.

Blades, for example, got a %25 on defense when that bonus is practically geared toward Knights. RMs got a %20 on HP when that bonus is also practically made for Knights to make better use of. Basically each class got far better bonuses concerning the 120 sets, which indicates that they are trying to make every class on par with each other concerning HP and Defense and Block rate, which is the reason why Aeonsoft fails at balancing PvP and certain classes.



Concerning the Dex- Why waste points into DEX when it's only good against Blades and the 1 in a million BRM? There's no point to pour stats into Dex just for one class. It's simply common sense. It's obviously better to put stats into STR/STA because the biggest enemies of Knights are BPs and Psys, not Blades. There are no more knockbacks in PvP, so DEX is a completely useless stat for Knights.

About the prevention, I've already posted suggestions in the first post. Which would be either a cool down on the skill or maybe restoring less HP when maxed.

[Halu]

If you went to check, calculate the amount of dex you would add to get a decent block rate, you'll find that it is a lot. And again, which class will hit you, a blade yeah. But the rest of the time, you get raped by the long range classes, and of course the holy asal.

With a much higher str than sta, I can say the damage is pretty pathetic, well probably the action slot never ever finishes casting when ur object runs away.

And highest hp boost, yeah yeah. Cut all that crap, a blade with two h-axes can have more hp than a knight. A rm with that sta with prev would be a much better tanker, and we still got the holy bps as well.

/end rant

[AbeBlinkin]

I wouldn't mind an increase in the damage modifyer for knight weapons

[Nelaly]

in my opinion (and to those who wanted an hp increase boost / whatever)
that shouldn t be a passive option, but an active one, like making the hp boost from rage depending on your sta (just like the duration), because as it is now, it s just used for attacking
(yay for 500-900 hp more at maxed level depending on your %hp from set)
that kind of idea would actually make the sta (one of our main stat) very useful, and eventually able to counter an asal with just hp (and some godly gears of course)

@ Longknife :

You get 10 of the two most important stats to Knights, then % rates on the two things Knights have the most of.

that can t really be seen as an edge for the def% added from 120 set since as everyone knows, def is useless against almost anything , it s not like someone is going to aoe with that set anyways so... that makes only 3 useful added bonuses (str sta and hp)
just same as the 2 handed axe (and I don t even talk about the sword)

with ppl with velo scrolls, by the time u hit powerstomp, ur target is already miles away.

just like Halu says, (and it really seems that melee classes are blind or something when asking the old sneaker effect, or drunk or high whatever) by the time a knight casts a skill (be it the first one in the action slot, or just a stump) the target has already crossed twice the solar system : can someone tell me what a melee class does when the target is miles away from the axe ?
of course hero skill could fix that, but man, hero skill (going to 120 once AND going another time to 120) and you don t even have a single guarantee of having it maxed with the first try

imo (siege and gw situation) knights role is to survive while being a secondary damage dealer, current sneaker being a great asset, not just for the knight, but also for the other guild members. I agree it s too long though.

also since knights are supposed to be "tankers", they (and only knights) should be able to achieve really high hp and no one else. if any other class can achieve same or highter hp than a knight while having a stronger damage output, that s unbalanced

*opened to any counter opinion*
ps : agrees with e-brawl on the whole line

[MStevens24]

Originally Posted by rook

I guess you could try clicking http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3...ff00095bh1.jpg Yeah it's HC'd but anyways, it's still 38k and nothing can change that.

found another one, someone just hasn't updated the records assume http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=42khopqw5.jpg and this is without hc

Most of us dont have personal rms running around hcing poeple before they hop/asal.
So you cant take that into account.

Also I agree with everything on here, except the 50%, should be around 20-30%, 50% is to high.

[SephyGhaleon]

Yeah, seem like knights need a little tune up after so many classes are having similar hp. =x

[ItsDro]

I have to disagree with you Longknife.

You say they are the most important stats for a knight, true, but also let's be realistic, 10 sta and 10 str can only get you so far...a thousand hp and a hundred damage? Eh, for something to be obtainable by so few, you'd think it'd be as good as the other sets, not saying it's bad as is of course.

There are far better stats that could have been used that would make much more sense for such an exclusive set, so throwing 10 str/sta really isn't that big of a difference.

And what do you mean watch the amount of HP a knight as lol?
You're basically saying the total opposite of what they've done with Asaal.

HP isn't what makes a knight, because no matter how much HP we have, there is always some BP that'll come an asaal you regardless and you'll die, it's just a fact you've got to face.

So I will still agree to the 120 Set Being improved atleast to the standards of the other sets.

Don't count a knight out from a siege btw, it just takes alot longer for a knight to be prepared for siege than other classes, so just level and get the right gear and you'll be good competition in no time.