But there is a big difference between PvP and Siege too.
In Siege: The biggest problem in siege is you need to attack fast and run again else you die. Skills like asal and hop are good here, psybombs too since they keep following till they hit the target. The problem with knights is they need to get close range to do damage. Since everybody in siege runs on velo's it's pretty hard. Not to mention everybody is on eels so having 20k+ hp. Attacking someone too long would make you a target for other people.
In PvP: I think knights are pretty ok here. Can take out most people except people with higher hp like or high atk.
But the thing you can't do is compare to BP's/Psy's or w/e. Those classes are a bit overpowered :x
Also the balance between HP and ATK is so messed up in flyff. Remantis food and low cooldown too.
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05-19-2008, 07:40 AM
I don't think that knights need any modifiers changed, just a new attack.
The average knight does what 1.5k per keen hit? So maybe an attack so that the average knight could hit 4.5k in one hit but still sorta slow casting even when action slotted, but not as slow as keen
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05-19-2008, 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MStevens24
Im not sure how many different ways I have to say this to you but you cant use 7 linkers and hc with your calculations. And why in the hell are you useing a rm hp record when im debating knights vrs jesters with you.
When your debating damage, NOT EVERYONE HAS 7 LINKERS! Serioulsy man, take the 7 linkers and hc out of it, and then use the record, I can agree with that, but no one has a random 7 people following them to link at will.
Lmao, when was this a Knight vs Jester thread? If I'm going to show and compare full class potential, I'm going to show the records including the Knight one. Simple as that. I don't know where you got it in your head that this thread is about "Knight vrs Jester" just because I included the Jester record and you only took it personally when it was 9 pages from the first post?
This thread is about Knights and I used examples from different classes to compare damage. And when it was an HP issue, Knights still got outclassed by RMs and BPs. I only used the Jester record to show their full potential, just like I did with other classes. Stop trying to distort this thread away from it's real discussion please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHFT
Also the balance between HP and ATK is so messed up in flyff. Remantis food and low cooldown too.
They need a bit of boosting but not too much imo.
.
remantis is mainly the issue, and it's the reason why BPs don't want their asal nerfed. it really needs a cooldown or less HP recovery imo, instead of being able to spam %100 HP recovery all the time. Also, Knights swordcross % is like what? 25 or 30 %? I'm sure if they raised it to 45 or 50 it would solve alot of damage issues.
i quite agree i have a level 67 knight and mobbing is pretty slow compared to other characters i see.... i cant mob high level mobs without using guard and guard's duration is so low that you might not even be able to kill the mob during its duration...
increase guard's duration and maybe add a little aspd for the knights ^_^
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05-19-2008, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-brawl
Lmao, when was this a Knight vs Jester thread? If I'm going to show and compare full class potential, I'm going to show the records including the Knight one. Simple as that. I don't know where you got it in your head that this thread is about "Knight vrs Jester" just because I included the Jester record and you only took it personally when it was 9 pages from the first post?
This thread is about Knights and I used examples from different classes to compare damage. And when it was an HP issue, Knights still got outclassed by RMs and BPs. I only used the Jester record to show their full potential, just like I did with other classes. Stop trying to distort this thread away from it's real discussion please.
.
remantis is mainly the issue, and it's the reason why BPs don't want their asal nerfed. it really needs a cooldown or less HP recovery imo, instead of being able to spam %100 HP recovery all the time. Also, Knights swordcross % is like what? 25 or 30 %? I'm sure if they raised it to 45 or 50 it would solve alot of damage issues.
Ummm becasue you brought up the comparison? which is why I was debating it with you? And then in the middle of you making points, you throw out a RM hp record. But w/e obviously you seem to think I have a fan club of 7 people following me around at all times ready to link.
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05-19-2008, 01:02 PM
I thought of something that would help Knights.
Honestly, I think Knights are fine as they are EXCEPT I agree it's a little annoying that the Knights turned out NOT to be the best tanking class. It's kinda like Elementors turning out NOT to be the best immediate damage dealers. D: So yeah, I feel the pain, there...
Anyways, in v7 we had HP regeneration, but they've since removed it in ways. It used to just constantly work, but now it only works while you're idle. If they restored it, Knights had some pretty epic HP regens. I remember fighting higher level knights and realizing it was a stalemate, because he couldn't pass my prev line and I couldn't combat his HP regen.
There ARE flaws with this, though...
First off, it would change the way the game works. Knights would suddenly be fucking impossible to kill. Not impossible, but really annoying to kill. It would take a Blade or a BP, basically. I think Psy damage could be generally canceled out by this. This is good for knights, but perhaps awkward for many, because it does change a major part of the physics of the game again.
BP's would definitely fall behind in the tanking game. Their HP regen rate just can't compete with that of a Knight's. Sure, prev is still there and still nice, but Knights would have the defense and HP regen, which is for many people, more effective. Plus there's plenty of hits that do pass prev lines. Psys, Ele's, and Blades all stand good odds at passing prev.
However, there is one class that, along with Knights, happens to share an epic HP regen rate.
Yep, ironically, the RM's DO have a stat they're good at. RM's have epic regen rates for every stat, so RM's would still be able to compete with Knights here.
Thing is though, even though on the charts, RM's have a higher HP regen mod, HP regen is based off of max HP (perhaps defense had a say too), something Knights still win out on. It's really tough to say who would, in the end, have a better HP regen rate; RM's have the straight up number for it, but Knights have the multiplier, if you will. They'd probably wanna beta test this idea if they left their regen rates as is... xD
Either way, even if this doesn't guarentee Knights a number one tanker title, it guarentees them a tie. People would simply go with their preference: Straight up epic HP and defense, along with epic HP regen, OR Average HP with crappy defense, with epic HP regen and a chance to double the player's HP.
I realize this plan has flaws, mainly with kicking BP's out of the tanking competition but not getting rid of RM's, but perhaps modifications could be made. I just wanted to hear what people think of the idea of restoring the constant HP regen system we had before. Perhaps it's too drastic of a change to the physics of Flyff, even though we've encountered this system before.
But there is a big difference between PvP and Siege too.
In Siege: The biggest problem in siege is you need to attack fast and run again else you die. Skills like asal and hop are good here, psybombs too since they keep following till they hit the target. The problem with knights is they need to get close range to do damage. Since everybody in siege runs on velo's it's pretty hard. Not to mention everybody is on eels so having 20k+ hp. Attacking someone too long would make you a target for other people.
In PvP: I think knights are pretty ok here. Can take out most people except people with higher hp like or high atk.
But the thing you can't do is compare to BP's/Psy's or w/e. Those classes are a bit overpowered :x
Also the balance between HP and ATK is so messed up in flyff. Remantis food and low cooldown too.
They need a bit of boosting but not too much imo.
I disagree in both PvP and Siege. Yeah a knight can do well in either one, yet the amount of time and gear it takes to become even semi-decent is unfair compared to the work it takes other classes. My knight does decent damage yes, but if another class had gear similar to mine i'd probably be at much more of a disadvantage, but still not counting myself out. Personally, I only believe BPs are overpowered due to asal, and Psys are what every class SHOULD be in regards to pvp, at least ability wise.
And no one's asking for an uber boost for one specific class, but rather a nerf in one class (BPs), and a boosting in the majority of the other classes.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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05-20-2008, 10:48 AM
Quote:
remantis is mainly the issue, and it's the reason why BPs don't want their asal nerfed. it really needs a cooldown or less HP recovery imo, instead of being able to spam %100 HP recovery all the time.
that thing was asked about during irc session, well not being specific to remantis
but more specific about the 20k hp healing limit for every healing item (besides rem)
in the game. (not fair having to use cs more than low hp classes )
something like "that kind of food should drop only in azria" came out (because xagel didn t really agree on it being dropped elsewhere) or "it would be way more expensive than golden pills"
in the end that felt like "no cs can t be changed" (which is pretty sad but understanble from the manager s point of view for now)
I disagree in both PvP and Siege. Yeah a knight can do well in either one, yet the amount of time and gear it takes to become even semi-decent is unfair compared to the work it takes other classes. My knight does decent damage yes, but if another class had gear similar to mine i'd probably be at much more of a disadvantage, but still not counting myself out. Personally, I only believe BPs are overpowered due to asal, and Psys are what every class SHOULD be in regards to pvp, at least ability wise.
And no one's asking for an uber boost for one specific class, but rather a nerf in one class (BPs), and a boosting in the majority of the other classes.
Thurr be my 2 Cents.
Depends on the server. I won't ever see a knight do well on aibatt lol. Everybody is high sta and everybody does high atks here. Knights are just here to sneaker most of the time.
05-18-2008, 10:27 PM
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