[donthave1]

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just want to hear some opinions

[guorbatschow]

im not US citizen so my opinion wouldnt matter.

but obama if i had the choice.

basically because
1. hillary is a lying bitch. sorry. there is no other way to put it.
2. hillary is splitting the democrats as we speak. all she cares is winning the candidacy. does she really think the obama fans are going to vote for her after all the obama slandering she pulled? obama however always stayed away from directly attacking hillary. im seeing mccain winning the election if hillary wins over obama.
3. obama actually has some virtues the US could need in a president.
4. obama rules.

see, im biased

[Fipherion]

personally, I'm changing my party offiliation so that I can vote for Obama in NC. He is by far the best Democratic candidate and if it weren't for some fundamental dissagreements that I have with the Democratic party's platform, I would vote for him in the general election without a doubt.

but seriously guys, lets be honest. the democratic primary is just entertaining filler to last us to the general election. There's no way that either of the democrats will have a chance against McCain and I'm not saying that because I'm a fan of his (i'm not), but hell, if the Republican party could get Bush elected to a second term, they can do anything and McCain WILL be our next president.

[Oskote]

I just went to an Obama rally just last week, and it was really amazing. This guy is charismatic, understanding, and (i think,) can represent the American people and make us proud of our country.

Fipherion, i disagree. I don't think that McCain will be our next president. I believe that the Democrats will band together and defeat McCain in '08. I agree with you on some points, if the Republicans could get Bush, or another puppet president elected, they would. But, as long as the worst they can come up with is McCain (Who, let's be honest, is no where near as bad as Bush was), then i think that the Democrats can win this election, and Obama will be elected the next President of the United States.

[guorbatschow]

however, i do not believe in the "change" obama is preaching about. obama is not a saint, and is still a part in that web involving lobbyists and powerful people behind the scenes, as have been shown by all those endorsements by those important democrats.

[cutieswatcher]

I always hated the word change and here's this man preaching for change.

I don't like Obama, there's something about him that i don't like...it's almost like he's hiding something.

I like Hilary..well i don't really like her, like her husband and as long as he's in office again that's all that matters to me.

[hazelmurphy]

Originally Posted by Oskote

I just went to an Obama rally just last week, and it was really amazing. This guy is charismatic, understanding, and (i think,) can represent the American people and make us proud of our country.

Fipherion, i disagree. I don't think that McCain will be our next president. I believe that the Democrats will band together and defeat McCain in '08. I agree with you on some points, if the Republicans could get Bush, or another puppet president elected, they would. But, as long as the worst they can come up with is McCain (Who, let's be honest, is no where near as bad as Bush was), then i think that the Democrats can win this election, and Obama will be elected the next President of the United States.

Bear in mind that McCain is slaughtering both Obama and Hillary in cross party voters (voters who would voted against party lines)

McCain is an extremely liberal republican . . . and a moderate democrat is more likely to vote republican than a moderate republican is to vote democrat.

[bhamlaxy]

obama however always stayed away from directly attacking hillary.

Wrong. Remember Hillary holding up the campaign literature in Ohio attacking her on health care and NAFTA and shouting "Shame on you Barack Obama!" My teacher works for the media firm who designed them, which received a lot of heat for the negative ads relying on shaky quotes and claims. Both campaigns have gone negative, although less so from Obama.

im seeing mccain winning the election if hillary wins over obama.

Hillary is actually doing a decent amount better in current polls comparing McCain vs. each of the candidates.

but seriously guys, lets be honest. the democratic primary is just entertaining filler to last us to the general election. There's no way that either of the democrats will have a chance against McCain and I'm not saying that because I'm a fan of his (i'm not), but hell, if the Republican party could get Bush elected to a second term, they can do anything and McCain WILL be our next president.

This is something I disagree with. Not only is McCain a little shaky when it comes to conservatives, which will damage his ability to get out the vote, Obama and Hillary both have pretty good aspects. Obama is a fundraising machine and has the unique ability to get new voters out, and Hillary has the base on lock down. The war is extremely unpopular, and many people just simply hate the republican party. I also think at the end of this primary mess the dems may view a clinton-obama or obama-clinton ticket as the only viable solution, which would massacre McCain.

Additionally, if your argument was true, the Republicans would have gained control of congress in the 06' election.

however, i do not believe in the "change" obama is preaching about. obama is not a saint, and is still a part in that web involving lobbyists and powerful people behind the scenes, as have been shown by all those endorsements by those important democrats.

Oh yea, because Obama accepts Lobbyist contributions.... oh wait, nevermind, he doesn't. His entire approach is a remarkable change from Bush. The Bush presidency was all about money. His campaigning relied almost exclusively on bundling, where corporate fat cats get all their rich friends and employees to donate thousands of dollars. I forget the exact statistic, but something like 630 people were responsible for 30% of his funds raised. Bundlers who raised specific amounts were labeled pioneers and rangers. What does this result in? Disgusting amounts of favoritism when it comes to contracts and such. Nearly 40% of the "bundlers" were appointed to positions within the government. Specifically, one of the biggest individual fundraisers was Ken Lay from Enron, who brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars. The result? He got to hand pick 40% of the commission that regulates his own industry! This is transactional politics, which is what Obama seeks to change. He doesn't answer to the richest 1/10th of 1% of the country. His fund raising is based on hundreds of thousands of small contributions, and his policies are for the people.

Bear in mind that McCain is slaughtering both Obama and Hillary in cross party voters (voters who would voted against party lines)

McCain is an extremely liberal republican . . . and a moderate democrat is more likely to vote republican than a moderate republican is to vote democrat.

And bear in mind Obama is attracting hordes of brand new voters and political contributers.

[hazelmurphy]

Originally Posted by bhamlaxy

And bear in mind Obama is attracting hordes of brand new voters and political contributers.

So did John Kerry . . .

[bhamlaxy]

So did John Kerry . . .

Not even close to Obama.

[Longknife]

I closed my door on Hillary when I heard... (again, I lack details cause I'm hearing this all overseas. Hell, I could be completely wrong, so someone confirm it for me. xD Sorry if this all turns out to be laced with bullshit. I still wanna debate and I still wanna educate myself, so I'm posting it. :0 )

about the time there were issues in Florida (FUCK THEM I MEAN C'MON; THIS IS THE THIRD ELECTION THEY'VE FUCKED UP ON! >8O ) and...I believe Michigan? One o them northern M states. :3

Well basically wasn't it like...Barack practically wasn't on the ballot in Florida, and something went wrong with Michigan which gave him near no time to campaign or advertise himself there?

Anyways they were debating if they should redo these two elections, the only reason given not to is the democratic party was asking who the hell is gonna pay for it?


Hillary was saying they shouldn't be redone. Now...that just looks crappy to me. If you didn't REALLY win, and you're clinging to your technicality win, that's just sick. Another thing, she's running for president of the United States. The President should look out for the interests of the American people. PERHAPS the interests of the people in Florida and Michigan are Barack Obama as president, but she doesn't seem to give a damn.


So yeah, forget her... @_@


She's also become pretty damn desperate now, it's sad to watch. Only part of her campaign I watch and don't totally shut out is, unlike with Hillary, I don't look at Bill and say "What a desperate bitch..." I look at him and say "C'mon man, you're better than this. D:" and wonder who the fuck persuaded him to say some of this shit talk.

It's also like, for instance, the issue about "landing under sniper fire" in Bosnia that she lied about. If her answer was:

"I'll admit I lied about the sniper fire, and I'm sorry. I only kept to this story simply because I found it interesting, and even though at the time there was no combat, I considered we had just been lucky and that something could happen any moment, because I had STILL been told that we were entering a combat zone and warned that it could be dangerous. I let drama and fear get the best of me, and again, I'm sorry."

THAT I could believe, forgive, and forget. Not this, "I admit I might have misrecalled the situation on some accounts" bullshit.




Barack Obama, I'm sure has done some shit-talking too (as have all candidates), but it's at least pretty minimal. Also, when his shit talk is challenged by Hillary, he sticks to his shit talk, and argues back very calmly as to why what he said about Hillary is true. He doesn't back down as if he's thinking "Oh shi I got caught... Dx"



At this point I think the top political advisor in the Hillary campaign should just push her to the side and yell at the audience, "YOU'LL GET BILL BACK!" Maybe then, they'll stand a chance.











P.S. Turns out she didn't lie about Bosnia.

[hazelmurphy]

Michigan and Florida lost their delegates - the DNP took them away because those two states moved their primaries to an earlier date in an effort to make them more prominent. It was well established before the elections started that no candidates would stump for votes in either of those states. Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan.

It only became an issue when Hillary realized she was losing the nomination. Then, in typical Clinton/Gore form, she decided that she would start pushing for the elections to be reheld.

[Longknife]

Originally Posted by hazelmurphy

Michigan and Florida lost their delegates - the DNP took them away because those two states moved their primaries to an earlier date in an effort to make them more prominent. It was well established before the elections started that no candidates would stump for votes in either of those states. Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan.

It only became an issue when Hillary realized she was losing the nomination. Then, in typical Clinton/Gore form, she decided that she would start pushing for the elections to be reheld.

AH thank you!!

I'd heard the story like this once, and heard it first from a friend in a much more simplified version. Couldn't remember all the details in the last post. xD


BUT YA, WUT DA FUK.

[Tor]

I dont' want barrack obama to win. In that video, he contradicted himself. This guy is full of lies too. When I look at his campaigns, it seems to me, that all he is saying, is what he thinks everyone wants to hear.

LOL @ this statement.

"... .. The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person who, uh, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction that's been been bred into our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it..."

however, i do not believe in the "change" obama is preaching about. obama is not a saint, and is still a part in that web involving lobbyists and powerful people behind the scenes, as have been shown by all those endorsements by those important democrats.

Dude I agree with that. What was that guy, that said he's a leader that comes every 1000 years. Hell no, I don't think he's a leader that comes every 1000 years. That leader was MLK. I wouldn't even compare him to the "change" that MLK wanted. Not saying anyone said that here, but I'm hearing a lot of people say he's the "change", the "one". Putting him on that type of platform already when he hasn't even done much...barely anything but words imo.

[Longknife]

Originally Posted by Tor

I dont' want barrack obama to win. In that video, he contradicted himself. This guy is full of lies too. When I look at his campaigns, it seems to me, that all he is saying, is what he thinks everyone wants to hear.

LOL @ this statement.





Dude I agree with that. What was that guy, that said he's a leader that comes every 1000 years. Hell no, I don't think he's a leader that comes every 1000 years. That leader was MLK. I wouldn't even compare him to the "change" that MLK wanted. Not saying anyone said that here, but I'm hearing a lot of people say he's the "change", the "one". Putting him on that type of platform already when he hasn't even done much...barely anything but words imo.

But there's something different about your arguement here, and my arguement against Hillary's lies.


With Hillary's lies, as I've already said, her apologies just seemed...completely crap to me. You can tell they weren't serious, nor were the things she said in her apologies true.

When I watch that video, I can totally understand where those "contradictions" come from.

But first off, they don't even seem like contradictions to me, because there's no proof Barack had seen some of the statements from his preacher related to our country.

Second off, I can totally understand Barack SAYING he would confront his preacher, but not actually being able to do it. That's a normal human thought pattern, where someone is unable to diss on someone important to them.

Third, again, I can see Barack TOTALLY knowing that his preacher's a little odd, but choosing to back him somewhat anyways, because he's like family and has done something important to impact Barack's life.

Fourth, this is really the only major controversy I've seen on Barack, and I'm willing to give each candidate the benefit of the doubt for just one controversy.





A preacher may be an important part of someone's life, and it can also be a very minor one. I, have never had one. If this preacher were Barack's father or mother, I'd be looking at it a little different. But he's not.