[Tor]

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If obama gets the POTUS title, i don't think he'll know what to do with it. I haven't been impress with Obama on much. Blaming his staff, flip flopping on many issues. Biggest liberal in senate. Doesn't have much experience. Takes too many vacations during the primary. Trying to play the "cool" and "race" card too much. Put down Bill Clinton. The list can go on and on.

Doesn't defend fellow democrat from sexist remarks and msm. Won the nomination through "caucuses" and "super delegates". There's stories out there of voter fraud through caucuses. And how can caucuses give you almost 50% of the total delegate votes when they contain like 10% of all the votes total?

Yea man I'm bitter and clinging right now.

[bhamlaxy]

i don't think he'll know what to do with it

He knows exactly what he wants to do with it. I mean seriously, he's got an agenda, he's studied politics, he's been in the senate, and he has a team of advisers. Remember that during an interview, Palin asked a reporter what a vice president actually does.

Blaming his staff

When has Obama blamed his staff, and for what?

And I find it hilarious you would make this argument against Obama but not McCain. McCain has had to shake up his staff on NUMEROUS occasions. He's had to fire his campaign director, pick new ones, fire people with lobbying ties etc. etc.

flip flopping on many issues

Welcome to politics. McCain flip flopped on offshore drilling and the bush tax cuts, which are now CENTRAL components of his energy and tax policies.

Biggest liberal in senate

And McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. I'd say that makes McCain one of the biggest idiots in the senate.

Doesn't have much experience.

I personally don't put as much weight on experience as other people seem to. I place the issues FAR higher than experience. Neither of them have experience as president.

Robert Mugabe is extremely experienced! He has been president of Zimbabwe for decades! Does that mean he should be favored over a less experienced reformer? Hell no. In my eyes, I'd rather have someone less experienced with better policies than someone with a lot of experience and the wrong policies.

Takes too many vacations during the primary.

What's so bad about that? Do you have any idea how stressful a campaign can be? For months on end, you are waking up extremely early, giving speeches, planning speeches, contacting fundraisers, attending meetings, flying, riding buses, raising a family, dealing with the press, having your entire life thoroughly picked through by the entire world, and dealing with death threats.

He took the perfect amount of vacations during the primary. Why? Because he won. Why should he have taken less? So he could have extra-won? He was able to win the nomination and maintain sanity.

Trying to play the "cool" and "race" card too much.

This is a point I simply cannot stand.

Many people refer to some very vague comments Obama has made as playing the "race card". Has Obama ever said he should receive votes simply because he is black? Or has he called negative media attention he receives racist? I don't think so. He rarely refers to his race, and it is never flagrant enough to call it using the "race card".

On the other hand, Palin is literally waving the sex card in the air any chance she gets. In her nomination she claimed that a vote for her would "break the glass ceiling" for women, literally saying that she should receive votes purely because she was a woman. I guarantee if Obama used rhetoric like that Fox would have a field day criticizing him. Then when the media questions the contradiction between Palin's conservatism and her 17 year old knocked up daughter, she fires back at the "sexist media".

And don't get me started on McCain's use of the, I guess I'll call it the "POW card" to dodge questions even on issues.

Put down Bill Clinton.

Not too sure about this one. When? During the primaries, when Bill was firing at him? After Bill refused to watch his nomination speech?

And if you like Clinton, I can assure you any negative comments Obama has made are no where near what McCain thinks of the man.

Doesn't defend fellow democrat from sexist remarks and msm.

Not sure what you are referring to. Clinton?

Won the nomination through "caucuses" and "super delegates".

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

If your logic were applied, no democratic candidate would be legitimate because they all won through caucuses and super delegates.

There's stories out there of voter fraud through caucuses. And how can caucuses give you almost 50% of the total delegate votes when they contain like 10% of all the votes total?

Again, don't hate the player, hate the game. Instead of not voting for Obama because he won through a broken system, work to fix the system.

What should Obama have done? Tried to change the age-old caucus system before running for president?

Yea man I'm bitter and clinging right now.

I understand, but instead of focusing on things like primary vacation time or the aspects of the democrat nominating system, look at the issues. Do you really want a continuation of the failed Bush economic policies? Or a president who refuses to talk to Iran about stopping their nuke program until they stop their nuke program? Do you really want someone who leapt up and choked a sandinista rebel during peace talks to be our countries top diplomat?

[Tor]

If your logic were applied, no democratic candidate would be legitimate because they all won through caucuses and super delegates.

I'm sorry but those two things weren't always there. Weren't all you BO supporters saying that he would be treated unfairly because of SD's? Look what happened.

I do hate him for cheating the system just like cheating his way into politics by kicking out his competitors in Chicago. Good old style Chicago politics, no wonder he won those caucuses.

Very democratic of you to agree to cheating the system though. Nice, I guess he can cheat his way through global economy as well right? He play those games with the 300 milion american lives as well.

And McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time

And BO voted for everything else after saying he was opposed to voting for the War. I wonder what he would have voted for...if he could have actually voted.

Welcome to politics. McCain flip flopped on offshore drilling and the bush tax cuts, which are now CENTRAL components of his energy and tax policies.

FISA was a big disappointment too for BO.

This is a point I simply cannot stand.

“And I know that the temptation is to say, ‘You know what? …The guy hasn’t been there that long in Washington.,’ You know, ‘he’s got funny name,’ You know, ‘we’re not sure about him,’” Obama continued. “And that’s what the Republicans, when they say, ‘This isn’t about issues, it’s about personalities,’ what they’re really saying is, ‘We’re going to try to scare people about Barack. So we’re going to say that you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections or we’re going to say that, you know, he hangs out with radicals or he’s not patriotic.’

Seems like playing the race card to me.

I'm sorry but the media followed a post by DailyKOS about her baby being her daughters? WTF is that. I'm sorry but Larry Sinclair didn't get no primetime news. Who wouldn't be mad about that? And please don't deny that the media was totally sexist towards her. Anyone could see that easily.

Or should she go home and cook or take care of her down sysdrome kid? Sexist much?

And obama attacking Bill on his Legacy

http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage...20081349315803

And some weeks ago he said, lets get back to those bill clinton days. Idiot man. What Mccain thinks of bill is up to. He's in a different party.

Not sure what you are referring to. Clinton?

Obivious isn't it? Or do you not agree with sexism towards hillary clinton.

I understand, but instead of focusing on things like primary vacation time or the aspects of the democrat nominating system, look at the issues. Do you really want a continuation of the failed Bush economic policies? Or a president who refuses to talk to Iran about stopping their nuke program until they stop their nuke program? Do you really want someone who leapt up and choked a sandinista rebel during peace talks to be our countries top diplomat?

Do you want a president who launch his politcal career at a terrorists house? Do you want a president who attended a radical church for 20 years? Do you want a president who's house was bought by a convicted felon, Tony Resko? Do you want a president who claims change, but picks Joe Biden? A 30 year washington insider?

[creative]

Originally Posted by Tor

“And I know that the temptation is to say, ‘You know what? …The guy hasn’t been there that long in Washington.,’ You know, ‘he’s got funny name,’ You know, ‘we’re not sure about him,’” Obama continued. “And that’s what the Republicans, when they say, ‘This isn’t about issues, it’s about personalities,’ what they’re really saying is, ‘We’re going to try to scare people about Barack. So we’re going to say that you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections or we’re going to say that, you know, he hangs out with radicals or he’s not patriotic.’

Seems like playing the race card to me.

Not a race card if he is addressing claims about:

-republican claims [fox news, in particular that obama was raised in a radical muslim school.

-buchanon (a republican) repeatedly referring to obama as exotic

-http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/17/gop-convention-button-asks-if-obama-is-presidentwill-we-still-call-it-the-white-house/


::responding to racist and "he's exotic" remarks toward him::

Race is relevant to this response, responding with his race and age would not be playing the race or age card.

::answering economical question::
Barack : Did you guys know I'm black?

^ That would be the race card


Unless you can point me to a situation where Obama's been playing the race card, you have nothing to back up your claim.



Another example:

When McCain was asked about how many houses he owned (jokingly) due to a gaffe he made earlier on the Jay Leno show, he responded with:

Jay Leno: Senator John McCain for one million dollars, how many houses do you have?

McCain: Could I just mention to you Jay in a moment of seriousness, I spent five and a half years in a prison cell. I didn't have a house. I didn't have a kitchen table. I didn't have a table. I didn't have a chair. And I spent those five and a half years because not because I wanted to get a house when I got out"

Do you think answering with "POW" to a question completely unrelevant to "pow" would be playing the "pow" card?



understand now?

Originally Posted by Tor

I'm sorry but the media followed a post by DailyKOS about her baby being her daughters? WTF is that. I'm sorry but Larry Sinclair didn't get no primetime news. Who wouldn't be mad about that? And please don't deny that the media was totally sexist towards her. Anyone could see that easily.

Or should she go home and cook or take care of her down sysdrome kid? Sexist much?



Obivious isn't it? Or do you not agree with sexism towards hillary clinton.

Palin was an unknown outside of Alaska before she had been picked. She also had lots of skeletons that she should have known would have eventually been leaked. The media isn't sexist, it's run on sensationalism.

If it can make a big story, regardless of they are black, white, man, woman, repub, dem they'll jump onto it.

Welcome to a sensationalist media.

Originally Posted by Tor

Do you want a president who launch his politcal career at a terrorists house?

Bill Ayers?

Originally Posted by Tor

Do you want a president who attended a radical church for 20 years?

Yeah man! The pastor there says radical things so Obama must be a radical hate-filled man too!

Steve and Bill are friends. Bill speaks regularly at their church.

What Bill says /=/ Steve's opinion.

Originally Posted by Tor

Do you want a president who's house was bought by a convicted felon, Tony Resko?

The Obama - Rezko connection holds as much water as McCain's Keating Five involvement.

Originally Posted by Tor

Do you want a president who claims change, but picks Joe Biden? A 30 year washington insider?

If you're referring to "Washington experience" you are right. Joe Biden would definately not be a change from Washington. Issue-wise though, it'd be debatable that Joe Biden could help "change" Washington.


You blame the "liberal sexist obamaloving media" but yet, you got all your talking points off of it.

All your points against Obama had been repeated time and time again by this "liberal obamaloving" media. If you want politics to be run differently, it starts with you.

[Tor]

That's what I call race baiting. Fox news claimed he was raised in a muslim school? Weren't all obama fans blaming hillary for that one?

WTF you joking. You call dailykos a credible news source? Did you even read their story about Sarah palin's son being her daughters? And somehow the news media jump in on it because of two photo's? Two photo's that held no evidence at all. No one even inspected the dates of the photo. They just jumped on the bandwagon. That's not being sexiest? It took the media 6 months to address the reveran, while it took them a day on a story posted on a radical left wing blog? Very unbias there. How about the story with Larry Sinclari? Very sensibly bias there to jump on a story on dailykos.

Also it's not being sexiest when you tell someone to go take care of their kids, when you could also tell BO to go take care of his kids? I'm sorry I didn't hear anyone blaiming BO on that. Don't act like it's not there. You probably didn't even see this on U.S weekly either right?





The only thing they had on her was power abuse, and the daughter pregnancy. They can jump on that all they want, but to jump on a rumor spread on dailykos is being bias. U.S Weekly is a piece of shit. Report one thing but not report another...very unbias. That cover is a disgrace.

The fact that he sat at that church for 20 years. Made him a spiritual advisor on his team is different than what you are stating there. Until it got heated and when the media and the public started to question his judgment then he "disassociated" himself. Totally different, apple and oranges to what you are comparing.

Can anyone answer, why would you launch your career at a terrorists house?

Resko was a convicted felon. He did help them buy that house...I'm sorry but that's straight up facts. Good judgement on his part isn't it?

John Mccain served his country. Lost his arm's functionality. He was POW for 5 years. He lived in Vietnam and called it "home" for 5 years while being tortured. That was his home. John Mccain has worked to live the american dream. He married to a rich wife. Are you bagging him on living the american dream? POW and Race cards are totally different things. IMO his answer though not what you want to hear, still could have been used to that question. If you live somewhere for 5 years, you could consider it your home.

Sorry I don't understand what you are talking about, with the liberal loving media.

[bobbycougar]

Obama all the way

[bhamlaxy]

I'm sorry but those two things weren't always there. Weren't all you BO supporters saying that he would be treated unfairly because of SD's? Look what happened.

The only thing said was that if the super delegates were to all swarm to Hillary even though Obama had more delegates, then it would alienate a huge part of the democratic party (blacks) and we would get killed in the election. Nothing about being treated unfairly.

I do hate him for cheating the system just like cheating his way into politics by kicking out his competitors in Chicago. Good old style Chicago politics, no wonder he won those caucuses.

His opponent didn't file correct petitions. You have to play by the rules.

Very democratic of you to agree to cheating the system though. Nice, I guess he can cheat his way through global economy as well right? He play those games with the 300 milion american lives as well.

What the hell are you talking about?

I agree, the system of super delegates, caucuses, and even the dates and timing of different primaries is wrong and favors certain people. Romney and Huckabee supporters were furious that someone who hadn't won any states (I think) before super tuesday could come out of it so strongly. Some people say we should have a single day primary, others say we should do away with the electoral college.

Obama didn't "cheat" the system, he worked within a broken system. No matter who the democrat nominee was, they would have gotten there using the same system. Again, the phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game" applies perfectly here.

I don't understand how he "cheated" anything, or how what he did in the primaries could be applied to the global economy or all the lives of Americans, as you describe.

And BO voted for everything else after saying he was opposed to voting for the War. I wonder what he would have voted for...if he could have actually voted.

Huh? I don't understand what you are trying to say here. If he could have voted? Voted for "everything else" after saying he was opposed to the war?

FISA was a big disappointment too for BO.

True, but if you look at the flip-flops McCain has made, they are much more politically motivated than FISA. The CORE of McCains energy policy and tax policy are policies he opposed before the primaries.

“And I know that the temptation is to say, ‘You know what? …The guy hasn’t been there that long in Washington.,’ You know, ‘he’s got funny name,’ You know, ‘we’re not sure about him,’” Obama continued. “And that’s what the Republicans, when they say, ‘This isn’t about issues, it’s about personalities,’ what they’re really saying is, ‘We’re going to try to scare people about Barack. So we’re going to say that you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections or we’re going to say that, you know, he hangs out with radicals or he’s not patriotic.’

Seems like playing the race card to me.

Just look at the difference between those statements and the FLAGRANT playing of both the gender card by Palin (saying she will break the glass ceiling for woman, calling the media sexist) and the POW card for McCain (claiming he doesn't have to answer questions because he was a POW). Those vague statements Obama made aren't very directed at race- they are part of a campaign wide attempt to combat the online rumors that he was a muslim, along with other things. This is evident when you look at how Obama has dedicated an entire section of his website to debunking internet rumors. These are FAR from playing the race card, he's not saying "I'm black so vote for me" or "I'm black so you can't be disrespectful to me", which is exactly what the republicans are doing.

I'm sorry but the media followed a post by DailyKOS about her baby being her daughters? WTF is that. I'm sorry but Larry Sinclair didn't get no primetime news. Who wouldn't be mad about that? And please don't deny that the media was totally sexist towards her. Anyone could see that easily.

Or should she go home and cook or take care of her down sysdrome kid? Sexist much?

And look what happened with the baby with the daughters rumor. They discovered at least part of the rumor was true- that her daughter was pregnant. This is a legitimate challenge to the idea of her being conservative.

But I agree, the media was a little bad on it, and it just became a mess. But the media is bad on both sides. The various liberal news organizations can be slightly slanted at times, but the conservative powerhouse fox works very hard with some pretty negative coverage of Obama. An especially vicious comment hinting a linkage to Islam was when Fox was talking about the fist jab Obama and his wife did

Regardless, what are we talking about here? Who we want to be our president! We know the media is nasty! We can both agree about that, but why does that make you not like the democratic side of the issues?

And obama attacking Bill on his Legacy

http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage...20081349315803

Oh come on! He didn't even mention Bill Clinton!!!

And some weeks ago he said, lets get back to those bill clinton days. Idiot man. What Mccain thinks of bill is up to. He's in a different party.

Then why are you criticizing Obama for disliking Clinton?!?! Obviously you respect clinton, because you think its wrong to talk bad about them. This election is between McCain and Obama. So you choose one. Why complain about Obama's comments on Clinton when McCains are worse? Therefore, Obama isn't as bad, so you should vote for him.

Obivious isn't it? Or do you not agree with sexism towards hillary clinton.

I agree. But Obama wasn't responsible for it.

Do you want a president who launch his politcal career at a terrorists house? Do you want a president who attended a radical church for 20 years? Do you want a president who's house was bought by a convicted felon, Tony Resko? Do you want a president who claims change, but picks Joe Biden? A 30 year washington insider?

Do you want a hothead like McCain who choked someone during a diplomatic talk handling the largest military in the world? McCain was involved in a high profile scandal, and Palin is dealing with her own scandals. Also Palin was a member of the Alaskan Independence Movement, do you really want someone in office that advocated SECESSION from the US? Yea, "Country First", if its the Republic of Alaska.

John Mccain served his country. Lost his arm's functionality. He was POW for 5 years. He lived in Vietnam and called it "home" for 5 years while being tortured. That was his home. John Mccain has worked to live the american dream. He married to a rich wife. Are you bagging him on living the american dream? POW and Race cards are totally different things. IMO his answer though not what you want to hear, still could have been used to that question. If you live somewhere for 5 years, you could consider it your home.

Sorry I don't understand what you are talking about, with the liberal loving media.

This is why the current state of American politics disgusts me. LOOK AT THE ISSUES FOR GODS SAKES!!! McCains continuation of the Bush tax cuts and the Iraq war mean more and more deficit spending with no help for the middle class. McCain's temper and refusal for direct diplomacy are very dangerous to have in two upcoming crises (Iran, Russia). As Joe Biden put it, we need more than a good soldier. I feel like I should ignore most arguments not relative to the issues. I don't feel like Obama kicking off his career at Ayers place, who was at that point a well respected professor at the University of Chicago will affect his policies or ability to be a president much, as well as I don't feel McCain being a POW makes him any more qualified. We all love our country, the issues are muuuuuch more important than this stupid personal crap. You are what is wrong with America.

I just don't get it. We have 8 years of democrat policymaking and shit is great. We get 8 years of republicans and everything goes to hell. This should be an easy decision.

[Punishment]

Originally Posted by bhamlaxy

I just don't get it. We have 8 years of democrat policymaking and shit is great. We get 8 years of republicans and everything goes to hell. This should be an easy decision.

I wonder why we didn't vouch for Hilary then. We all know she worked behind the scenes and was a pivotal force in her husband's presidency. At least with Hilary I can somewhat say I know what she might do. Obama on the otherhand just tells me he is going to do "changes". He isnt the first candidate with the gift of gab to go on ranting about change so he needs to give me something solid.

[Moshineko]

Originally Posted by bhamlaxy

I just don't get it. We have 8 years of democrat policymaking and shit is great. We get 8 years of republicans and everything goes to hell. This should be an easy decision.

Except for those years we had that crazy majority Democratic congress.

[hazelmurphy]

Originally Posted by bhamlaxy

I just don't get it. We have 8 years of democrat policymaking and shit is great.

I'm guessing you weren't in the workforce paying taxes in those 8 years.

[Tor]

check out this crazy shit coming from Biden



Obama is done! Holy Shit O_o. Sarah single handedly destroyed the democrates without lifting a finger. Watch out, Biden might step down soon.

[DivinedAngel]

Definitely Obama. Cuz one reason i will only put out there a semi quote from Hilary. "Oh I was under fire when i went to Iraq, there were snipers." Reality: she was with kids and took pictures with them.

[hazelmurphy]

IF Biden stepped down and IF Hillary accepted the nomination (neither of which is likely to happen) I will shit myself laughing at the members of the media (and the rabid Obama supporters who live in the debates sub-forum) who try and claim that it for any reason other than they were scared by the impact of Sarah Palin.

[Sircarp]

Originally Posted by Tor

check out this crazy shit coming from Biden



Obama is done! Holy Shit O_o. Sarah single handedly destroyed the democrates without lifting a finger. Watch out, Biden might step down soon.

Don't get your hopes up man, the sound quality isn't great, but that doesn't really sound like he's saying he's inferior to her and a bad VP choice. It sounds more like he's being modest and trying to avoid offending the Clinton lunatic fringe (See PUMAs).

On a side note how much of a crazy publicity stunt would it be for Biden to drop out then Hillary to ascend to his spot.