[Kamui4356]

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Originally Posted by npsi

Have you ever heard of any Muslim killing people just because they didn't belong to the Islam? Nope again.

Actually... Yeah, it's been happening quite a lot lately.

Originally Posted by Ninjer-sauce

If life has no significance, I can't see a point in even staying here.
Anyway, when trying to determine a world view, you shouldn't base your decision on which is more "amazing." I'm not looking for a marvelous, sparkly explanation. I want one that gives a complete answer. Naturalism gives us a how (although the validity of its explanation can be debated). Christianity on the other hand, gives me a how and a why. These explanations are also under heavy doubt by some.

Life has whatever signifigance you assign to it. If you can't find any without some old book telling you what it is, that's your failing.

As for only accepting a complete answer, why? If someone claims they have the answer for everything, they are most certainly wrong. You have to accept the fact that there are just some things we dont' know yet. Maybe some day we will, if we don't kill ourselves off first, or a giant meteor doesn't sneak up on us. Right now we don't.

Plus while christianity may give you a how and why, that how doesn't make a lot of sense and is directly contridicted by observable evidence. You can rely on it for a why, but not a how. That's where science comes in.

If Andromeda has a blueshift, doesn't that also throw off the center predicted in the big bang theory? And like 7000 galaxies supported Humphreys' hypothesis, so I'm pretty sure he had something.

Ah but you're forgetting one little thing, gravity. Also that movement towards the milky way is only relative. Remember, if the big bang is true, the milky way is flying out from the center of the universe too. If an observer in a static position outside the two galaxies were to observe them he'd seem them flying out from the center on a converging course being attracted to each other by gravity.

Also, there's something like 100 billion galaxies in the universe based on calculations. About half a million have actually been discovered. Taking 7000 galaxies out of 500,000 that all happen to be moving away from the milky way shouldn't be difficult. Now if the galaxies in question represented a random sample of those 500,000 it would be fine. However, we both know those galaxies were hand picked because they supported the conclusion.

Read the verses again. It makes absolutely no claim of self luminosity. It merely says that it is a light. We all know that light from the moon brightens the night sky . Whether it is reflected light or not, we see it coming from the moon. The implications you are referring to have come from your interpretation of the text, not the text itself.

So when the bible says god made two lights, it doesn't actually mean a light? Ok then. If you're willing to play around with that to take a different meaning, why not be willing to play around with the whole thing and accept the big bang theory?

o, no, and more no. They are created as two different entities. Would you also think that bugs are related to cows by this logic? God made "all the creatures that move on the ground" on the fifth day.

So you're saying that no species has any relation to any other then? That's fine if you want to ignore genetics. Of course that still doesn't solve the problem. Living things have genetic codes correct? This is not somehting you'd dispute right?

Even if you want to argue that the genetic code cannot be used to determine the relationships between species, wouldn't it still make sense that things god created at about the same time should share more genetic code with each other than with something god made the next day?

If we prove that the creation of the world was exactly like how the bible describes it, God still wouldn't be the only solution? If you're talking about other religions, they have different creation stories and wouldn't fit any more than the big bang.

It would only prove that the order of events in genesis was correct. It would not give any evidence that it was in fact god who did it and the stuff didn't just happen randomly. Of course, like I said in the part of the paragraph you neglected to quote, if the bible's right on the order of events it'd be hard to deny that it's wrong about the god did it part. However, it still wouldn't be direct evidence of god.

Ok, I understand what you're talking about now, but I don't remember saying that evidence supporting the big bang is a test from God. 0.o

Preemptive strike.

If God did do it, he didn't use the big bang. Trying to incorporate a man made theory into the biblical account cannot fit. You would be compromising what was stated in Genesis.

The evidence we have is pretty conclusive that the bang did happen. If there is a god that created the universe, this is how it was done. The story in genesis would then be a myth created by the people worshipping said god who didn't quite grasp what he said and altered it a bit by telling and retelling before the story was finally written down.

That isn't the only reason I consider the big bang flawed. Evidence also supports the statement that the big bang is impossible. That is why many secular astronomers also reject it. Naturalists are mixing observable facts (redshifts radiation and the like) with their assumptions about the formation of the universe. The evidence of microwave radiation only says that there is microwave radiation in the universe. It does not directly support that there was an explosion releasing this radiation that began the world. Maybe a galaxy just recently blew up and is emitting it. There could be countless explanations of the radiation's presence without the big bang, but some supporters claim it to be undeniable evidence supporting naturalism.

Actually very few reject it. Some do obviously, or there wouldn't be any other theories, but the majority accept it. That's how overwhelming the microwave radiation is. Sure you can claim it's from other sources, however, it wouldn't be as diffuse. If it came from a star or a galaxy exploding later it would be more concentraited. Maybe it would have diffused enough that we couldn't tell the exact source, but we could still tell that it has a source. The big thing is, this background radiation is everywhere we look. If it had happened later it wouldn't be.

It doesn't matter who proposed it. Heck, the pope could endorse it, but it still would be in opposition to what Genesis states. If you're going to throw out what the foundation of the scripture is about, how can you still claim the rest of it to be valid?

Not my problem.

I think that the random chance thing is why I cannot accept atheism. It's so overwhelmingly pessimistic. You have no purpose, you have no future after death, you are not protected by God, morals mean nothing because they're only a result of random electric pulses in the mind. Everything just results from chance. That scares the living crap out of me. By accepting God, I am given a definite how and why along with the promise of a better existence.

So you'd rather believe in a god that floods the earth and destroys whole cities because he doesn't like what people are doing with the free will he gave them, as opposed to things arising through random chance? Well your choice.

Did the big bang originally predict microwave radiation, or was it pasted on there after it was discovered? Just because something fits into a theory does not automatically mean that it supports it.
Let's say I make the prediction that my brother jacked my soda while I was typing this. If were to go into his room and see a crinkled Dr. Pepper can on his floor, does that mean that that soda was the same one that I put in the fridge to cool? I don't know.
The big bang is not the only possible source of radiation as far as I know.

It was originally predicted and found later. Note that the big bang theory was largely rejected until it was found. And yes, if a theory predicts something and it's found that does support it. If we take your soda can example, if you wrote your name on the soda can with a long id number, and the can in your brother's room had that your name and the same id number on it, yeah it's a safe bet he took it.

It's not just that it's microwave radiation. It's microwave radiation of a wavelength you'd expect to find if the big bang theory was true, and it's everywhere. A bang is the only possible explaination for it. That's why supporters of steady state theory created quasi steady state theory. They couldn't explain the radiation without a bang.

Have we observed all the matter and found a ratio of all the elements? Well, no. We have such an insanely small sample of matter that it cannot be possible for us to predict a ratio of the originally formed elements.

Is there any reason to think parts of the universe we have yet to observe would have a different ratio of element than the parts we have? I mean the only difference between those parts we've seen and the parts we haven't is well we haven't seen them. If the ratios varied a lot between galaxies we couldn't really claim it to be a representive sample, but if everything we've seen has a consistant ratio of elements, there's no reason to think we just live in an atypical part of the universe.

Could you explain more on the radiation? I'm not being sarcastic, but I don't know much of anything about it. I know it's there, but I don't know why its presence has to be due to the big bang. Is it because there's so much of it? My sources don't address it much. =\

Because of it's dispersion, tempeture, and wavelength. It's everywhere, like we'd expect to see if it came from the big bang. It's temputare is what we'd expect to see if it happened during the big bang and since cooled. It's at the wavelength we'd expect to see if it was created by the big bang. If it had been caused by anything else, it wouldn't be everywhere, would be hotter, and wouldn't have a consistant wavelength like that. A bang really is the only explaination.

[Ninjer-sauce]

Originally Posted by npsi

First of all, you said stupid jews.
Second, i really don't think Christianity is a fruit (or evolution) of Judaism. Have you ever heard of any Jew killing people just because they weren't Jewish? I really doubt it. Have you ever heard of any Muslim killing people just because they didn't belong to the Islam? Nope again.
Catholicism comes from Christianity right? Well, some Christian may have thought that blaming Jews for killing Jesus was fun, and then they had an entire population hating them, thus igniting the Inquisition, that was, some crazy people killing every single person that didn't believe in Jesus, God and other ridiculous stuff. Most of their victims were Jews by the reason above, and all the lies that made them move from another country to another, and etc, forcing them to exile. Have you ever heard of any other Religion doing that? No that I know of.

So, yes maybe Christianity is a fruit from Judaism. but a rotten one

But since you are close minded, let me say this to you that you'll surely understand:

Okey, big bang is bs, Christianity rules, God exist, you are right, we are wrong
there you go you win

You just don't get it. I wasn't calling Jews stupid, you ignoramus! I was sarcastically quoting the point atheists often say that the bible was written long ago by a nutty religious sect and has no relation to the modern world.

Just so you know, the Christians were persecuted by the Jews in the early years of the church. So that point is nulled.

Have you ever heard of any Muslim killing people just because they didn't belong to the Islam? Nope again.
OMFG, where have you been the last decade?

To answer your question, Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.

Where did you get your information saying that Christians blamed Jews for Jesus's death for fun? First of all, because of his death, we are absolved from damnation and I'm not exactly pissed at the ancient Jews for fulfilling the word.

You are trying to say that Christianity is the only religion that causes holy wars. That is honestly laughable, or you were being sarcastic.

[npsi]

You didn't have to reply! You win! Thats what you wanted! You are like a 10 years old kid that can't accept he loses.

[lightningX02]

Every one has their beliefs in religion. Which one is the right one? No one knows. Believe in what you believe and let the faith guide you. And for converting well every one has the right to decide on what ever they want. I think is okay to talk to people about your religion but thats about it pushing them to convert to it will be to extreme.

[Lan]

This shouldn't go become a Science vs Religion war -_- Anyway answer the question and stop being so you >.> I am christian and i don't give a damn about the big bang theory since it is a less than one chance in infinity to happen so

[bhamlaxy]

This shouldn't go become a Science vs Religion war -_- Anyway answer the question and stop being so you >.> I am christian and i don't give a damn about the big bang theory since it is a less than one chance in infinity to happen so

And the chance that some god guy decided to create a bunch of stuff, then make men and the rib-women to build and flourish in it, and decide to create moral codes and laws? One in infinity to the power of infinity!!!!

[Tor]

Guest what I heard. Jesus Christ was once a Buddhist.

[Moshineko]

Originally Posted by Tor

Guest what I heard. Jesus Christ was once a Buddhist.

XD


You read Lamb too? Awesome book.

[lightningX02]

Originally Posted by bhamlaxy

And the chance that some god guy decided to create a bunch of stuff, then make men and the rib-women to build and flourish in it, and decide to create moral codes and laws? One in infinity to the power of infinity!!!!

Dunno but the most I think about it I am re assured that theres a God out there. I know so many people that had prayed and had gotten a miracle. Like my mother had a accident when she was on her 2x and busted her knees making it really hard to walk. She was in intense therapy for about a year before going to surgery. My mom knew the surgery was going to be risky and was scared to death to do it. This priest came to our city and was preaching at a stadium one of her friends invited her to it told her to go ask him to pray for her or what not. So she did, there was a lot of people but somehow she got to meet him in the middle of the praying thing. He asked her to repeat with him what he said etc and to trully believe that God was gonna heal her. After that she went home kinda dizzy and fell asleep. The next time she had an appointment the doctor checked her knee and said that she was healed that her knees umm something about a liquid was all replenish.

I don't think is about the guy having powers but the fact that mom had faith and went there knowing that there was a chance of God fixing her.

Also I have a long story of my sister's father in law getting cured of cancer but that will take to long, my post is long enough. I will tell it later

[Zodia]

the real jesus christ just learned his tricks traveling around the world till he was 35 or so, then they made a movie about him from that point on. he really was a monk at one time.

Just think of him as David Blaine.

[Fenix]

No I don't believe Obama is not the "antichrist". I feel that all these prophecies and theories utter nonsense . I don't care how much evidence there is about this. To me its just a joke that only religious people should believe. The conditions to make such a totalitarian government do not exist anyway.